the scorched earth
by rantywoman
Mary tried to be fair, but her jealousy was beyond all bounds. Possibly Mrs. Herbert had been shy. Possibly she might be something more than beautiful, rough, rude, brainless, vulgar. This was Mr. Herbert’s serious permanent choice. She had been an amusement, a very small incident. “But I am superior,” she thought.
— F.M. Mayor, The Rector’s Daughter, p. 152
Sometimes the old dog in the corner can still be roused; it will, on occasion, still prick up its ears or wag its tail. This particular old dog will, on occasion, even be roused enough to leave its solitary cushion, if a smart, witty, sensitive, like-minded soul comes around.
This weekend I made a bold move; I reached out to someone I barely know in an attempt to forge a connection with someone I’ve long identified with and admired. I put aside my sense of shame and took a chance, something I do about once a year, when I realize that any semi-satisfying relationship of any duration that I’ve ever had resulted entirely from my efforts. In the midst of my communication, however, I heard from a decades-old friend, someone I normally keep at a bit of a distance due to a long history of empathy fails. Long story short, wires got crossed, paragraphs were sent to the wrong person, and I ended up revealing a lot more to Mr. A (as I’ll call him) than I ever in a million years would have wished to reveal to him or almost anyone else.
Modern communication being what it is, however, I have no certainty that Mr. A received the messages. If he has received them, he has not responded. The power of vulnerability, indeed.
On a bigger level, I don’t know what, if anything, the universe was trying to communicate to me. “Shed old friendships that are standing in the way of more fulfilling ones” or “stick with the ones who actually call, no matter how frustrating and dispiriting they can be.”
In any case, in a week in which there has been a public outpouring of sympathy over a celebrity, I could have used a small show of kindness from Mr. A. On one hand, I could be totally humiliated over this; on the other, Mr. A could find the whole thing funny or touching and reach out. It appears, however, that there will only be silence; perhaps I don’t rate a response.
This old dog, however, with a head so weakly raised, easily returns to slumber in the absence of encouragement. There was nothing to be roused for, after all.
The internet is not much help in moments such as these. At worst, it provides the glib platitudes one encounters enough of IRL; at best, there is a feeling of “me too” solidarity and connection. What is missing is an empathetic ear that can take in all the specifics of the disaster that has happened; even better would be an empathetic ear that has some general familiarity with the players involved. This used to be known, back in the day, as friendship.
In my student period I was acquainted with a group of friends; of this group two were always my favorite. Over the decades, those two have only grown in my estimation, showing kindness, creativity, and wit in our encounters. They have both become writers. There was another member of that group whom I cannot recall saying a single thing of substance, intelligence, or charm, and who was unable to give me the time of day when I first moved to L.A. She moved here with no real career plans and ended up marrying a successful writer and having a brood of kids. It feels like she is living the life I would have liked to have lived. I was reminded of her again in all of this, because she is loosely connected to Mr. A, and were she a nicer person, I could try to glean some insight from her. Were she a nicer person, in fact, perhaps I would not have had to advocate for myself in the first place.
I feel, at this point, that I must just let all the embers die. The embers of unsatisfying friendships from my past as well as the last remaining embers of certain kinds of hopes for my future. That I must sit with the dark void for a spell, here at the bottom of the U-shaped curve of happiness, at age 44.
Nooooo! Don’t give up. Is Mr. A the person you admire or the one who would put you in touch with the person you admire? What if the lesson is stop pursuing and glamorizing those you admire and instead look for those who you care about and who care about or have the potential to care about you?
For some reason I get the feeling you could be one of those people in a Hollywood movie who is chasing the uncatchable love interest the whole movie when the real true love is right under their face the whole time and they don’t realize it. You know that storyline? Just replace true love with romantic interest and friends and it seems fitting. Something in what you write makes me think maybe you pursue and fantasize about inaccessible people and maybe in doing so neglect to notice others who while less “glamourous” you could maybe develop a positive relationship with if you dig deeper or give it more of a chance. Maybe I’m completely off base. I know I’ve suggested it before so I’m sure if it rang a bell you would have said so.
Either way I hope you won’t give up all hope for the future. Things can always change and that is a fact.
That’s a lovely thought, that life is like that Hollywood movie, but unfortunately, no. Yes, I have turned down a few people, after going on multiple dates with them and realizing we just didn’t connect and every date felt like a huge struggle for conversation. Am still giving the late fifties guy a chance but still feeling like early fifties is about as far as I can stretch. Still have a connection to a like-minded soul I adore who struggles with some debilitating mental health issues that keep him from being able to commit and move forward with anyone (it’s a pattern with him– it’s not just me).
Mr. A would have put me in touch with this person. I do admire him, but for the right reasons… he’s done a lot of work on himself, seems a lot nicer and more centered than others in the biz, is not in front of the spotlight but behind it, and is not a “known” person generally. I have always enjoyed listening to him speak and sense a kindred spirit (same sense of humor, interests, etc). Would love to find someone not in the “industry” who has those qualities and is single (this guy just got divorced). In “real life” those encounters are random.
Could you stretch to mid-fifties…? 🙂 I’m younger than you, but I think in my late twenties, I could be with someone in their late thirties, if it were the right person. I agree about the 15+ year-age gap, though.
My one question for you…not that answering it will solve your problem…but do you think the men you are attracted to (witty, smart entertainers) are attracted to women who share their interests, sense of humour, etc.? Because I think men see relationships from a different vantage point.
Bitterbabe,
Unfortunately, smart, witty, sensitive, like-minded souls of our age, 40+, are all married, have children and often several gf-s fighting for the role of the wife. Add your location and believe me, your goal is not attainable. You refuse to compromise and blame the universe for having ended up with the life that you don’t want, to put it mildly. You really need to understand that ‘100% what I want’ only exists for gorgeous 20 y old supermodels – temporarily. You won’t find a bloke you’re looking for because he’s not available, he was discovered, grabbed and hidden out of view years and years ago.
IMO, you either compromise, or spend the rest of your life alone and unfulfilled. By compromise, I don’t mean just take anything that comes your way. Say, you want someone who is very smart and very well educated – amongst other things. Can you not ease off on smart and educated? Can he not just have a decent if menial job? And be presentable, knowledgeable, not thick but no Einstein? Just, you know, a ..normal sort of chap who watches tv, doesn’t love reading books too much, goes to pubs and has a good time with his mates, you get the picture? What if this non-Einsten was handsome, kind, loving, honest, easy-to-get-on-and-be-with and into you?
As far as the whole entertainment industry people that you seem to be aiming for. Would someone who had nothing to do with /no desire to be involved in this industry be an option for you?
Also, you know as well as I do that not only in LA but literally all over the planet, 45 y old men don’t tend to go for 45 y old women. Unfair, crap, horrible, yes, but very true and there’s nothing we can do about it. Would you be prepared to up the age limit? Again, I don’t mean zimmer frame brigade.. just someone in his early-mid 50-s perhaps?
(won’t even touch upon the whole baggage and substance abuse business, too long a topic).
My point is…nothing changes if nothing changes. Doing the same things and expecting different results is, as we all know, madness.
What do you think?
This dude is divorced. I’m willing to date up to mid-fifties but am approached by late fifties and sixties, which no, for the most part, not really willing to compromise on. Would rather be alone.
And if there is no common interests? And I’d just be sharing my space with someone on a couch watching a TV? I don’t see the point.
No, you can’t just accept anyone with no common interests. You’re better off to be alone, for sure.
I also see your point about the late fifties man. That would be a 15-year age gap…that would be too big for me, as well, at least now (but I’m in my late twenties). I don’t know how it feels when you’re in your mid-forties looking at someone in their mid-fifties. I would have thought the age gap narrows, but maybe not…I can see that too.
Maybe you overrate the common interests part. Sometimes, it seems like you are looking for a friend rather than a lover/ significant other. There are people with whom you can share your interests. A significant other is not going to fulfill all your social needs, he’s only one person.
Of course there are important differences, but those are little. With time, a couple can find a mutual agreement regarding this specific matter. It is very hard to find someone who is so similar to you. And honestly, it’s kind of boring. To make things worse, you close your range too much by thinking and obsessing about age.
It hurts my brain to watch you feeling sorry for yourself and anesthetized because your personal life is unfulfilling to you.
No woman is entitled to a perfect guy. No perfect guy is really perfect if you look him well.
“It hurts my brain to watch you feeling sorry for yourself and anesthetized because your personal life is unfulfilling to you” – ditto
I married someone with similar interests AND it was deadly boring. The best conversations I’ve had in the last years have been with people living different lives to me, with different opinions and zero interest in following my lead into my world. Felt strange at first. Now it is only refreshing.
No offence but none of our lives are that interesting to only warrant mixing with people doing same. Think it’s time to jump.
I agree with Anonymous. My spouse and I do share many common interests and traits, but I know of many happy, longterm couples who don’t. If my spouse suddenly changed all his interests I’d still love and want to be with him without question or hesitation. Additionally I wouldn’t assume because someone doesn’t share your interests all they want to do is sit on the couch and watch TV. They may have other interests that they could introduce you to and that uou may find you can actually enjoy, if for no other reason than it’s something you can do with the person you care about. If you have love the rest can fall into place and you may naturally take interest in each other’s interests simply by virtue of loving and being interested in the other person. That ends up expanding and enriching your life.
I’d love to be able to find someone to compromise with! as it is, it’s just a great big fat man zero. where would you even start looking for these men – apart from the internet? Ranty, did you tell MR A that you got the emails mixed up or could you contact this other man directly? life is short and getting shorter every day.
I immediately sent a communication explaining the mistake, but still no response.
why not just contact this other person – if you can find his details? nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. I really wish I had not hung back so much when I was younger. too late now.
They are such good friends, he probably has already heard. I really can’t dig a deeper hole at this point.
My desire to not have regrets is what causes me to reach out in the first place, and it has, at times, resulted in dates (and again, without being my own advocate pretty much there would be crickets).
I don’t think you’d regret reaching out, if this hadn’t happened. Better to take action than have regrets. Let’s hope that Mr. A. acts decently in this situation and politely ignores the ‘extra paragraphs’!
I still think you did great in reaching out. You should do that more often and try not to be too hard on yourself and accept the possibility of failing.
This reads like Jane Austen. If Mr. A is a decent sort, he won’t bat an eyelid at what you’ve sent him (and yes, I know I’m saying this without knowing exactly what you’ve sent him) because if someone likes you, even platonically, they will still like you when you make an honest boo-boo. They will usually also find it endearing and reply as soon as they can to say same. It’s usually a red flag when there’s a struggle with the basics. Maybe he doesn’t check his email often, maybe he does. Give him a few more days then return to the 21st century.
You don’t think there is an undercurrent of “fan-dom” in the way you feel about those you want to pursue or have relationships with? I just notice from your language, the way you talk about “admiring” these people, and how they are in this industry and a lot of what you say sounds like you are approaching a celebrity almost or inaccessible person rather than a peer. Do you think to them you seem like a peer and potential partner or more like a fan? Your work and lifestyle seem quite different than what you describe of them. Maybe they too are attracted to what you’re attracted to and they don’t see that in you? Could it be that what you see and like in them is more what you want for yourself in your life and you’re looking in the wrong place, trying to get it from a partner instead of finding how to get it for yourself in your life?
Baygirl – that’s kind of what I was getting at with my reference to Jane Austen. The attraction seems so distant, formal, based on admiration rather than lust (that’s kind of what it’s all about folks … in the beginning anyway).
Ranty, in my experience lust is the glue that sets a relationship on fire and holds it together. Sure there are other things too but it’s a romantic attraction rather than a platonic attraction we’re talking about here, so I’m going to put a capital L on Lust.
Do you feel this towards Mr. A? or are you looking for companionship only? If it’s the latter, then I don’t think any man is going to be interested.
especially when you’ve already ruled out older guys …
Lust and love. Love, as in feeling of affection. I don’t know if Ranty is feeling affection in addition to admiration. Affection/caring is beneath all healthy relationships IMO, whether friendship or romantic. I don’t get a strong sense of affection for others coming from Ranty’s posts. Ranty, it feels weird to talk about you in the third person sorry. Sometimes it’s hard to reply to someone here without doing that.
Yes, love and caring is beneath all healthy relationships but in my experience lust is the magic ingredient at the START that sets everything else in motion. The basic attraction that draws us to want to be around someone else, which in time develops into caring about them and affection for them.
Well it could be worse … you could be living in Russia, where the curve doesn’t bottom out until age 91 and life under Putin is one continuous downward spiral into despair.
I understand the importance of your passions in your life. The great abstract love in my life is literature (although it is unrelated to my career) and if I were not able to discuss it, think about it and incorporate it into my daily life I would be stifled and unhappy. That said, the fact that literature is not of passionate interest to my husband does not take anything away from our relationship. What matters for our happiness is that we have shared values (views on life, happiness, goodness, evil, what beauty is, etc.). Although he does not specifically enter into my literary interests, he respects them and enjoys when I want to discuss. From the other side, I am refreshed by a mind that is more practical and which does not revolve so heavily around the arts but which still offers a valid and valuable viewpoint.
I don’t mean to suggest that you should just date anyone without considering common ground. But to my mind, there is a difference between common interests and common values. Could there be a man who shares your values for basic decency, sensitivity, and goodness? He might not be so witty, creative or passionately consumed by the arts (or whatever creative pursuits that engage you) but if he had the aforementioned qualities, he would have respect and love for your passions. I think this could make you equally happy. In having read your blog, it strikes me that you feel that your passions define you and set you apart from the crowd, therefore you look for a companion who matches up in these categories. However, you are more than that and there could be someone who, given the chance, could care for you in even a deeper way than shared hobbies. What do you think? I write this with the utmost respect for you and your situation.
To be honest, it’s a nice fantasy to think there’s a cute cop or firefighter (like the one in Bridesmaids) waiting in the wings. But I work around a lot of engineers, firemen, police, repairmen… every last one married, as far as I can tell.
It wouldn’t have to swing so far the other way — what about a teacher, CPA, city planner, nurse practitioner, or sales exec? 🙂
That is some of my feeling too. I can relate to the feeling of relating more in some ways to those who are more similar to me and share some of my artistic creative passions, but I’ve found over time that those who’ve been important in my life are those who care about me and vice versa, and that that trait, just caring about each other, has been the most important thing. Life can be hard. Having people we care about who care about us and support us is so important and it is possible to have that even without many shared interests. And there’s always something we can find in common with others, even if a lot of the big stuff doesn’t overlap. And after some time, a shared history will also be something in common that helps bind people together.
I agree with JLL, Ranty, that you are more than just your passions and interests. I don’t know if you’ve ever read the Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron, but I found the concept of Shadow Artist in that book very interesting and it resonated with me. It discusses how some people are very drawn to creative, artistic types, because deep down they are not allowing themselves to pursue that aspect of themselves and are instead seeking it in others and trying to find ways to be near it without jumping in themselves. Maybe the desire to pursue someone like that would take on less significance for you if you were able to pursue your own creative interests more for yourself in your own life. Maybe that is in a way part of what you tried to do in your year off, I don’t know. But hopefully if that dynamic is at all present, hopefully you can start nurturing that part of yourself and feel more satisfied by doing so and maybe it would also end up changing some of what you’re looking for in someone else too and broaden the field, so to speak. I couldn’t find an excerpt from the book about it, but here’s a blog post and other link about it. There are other links online as well
http://anartistslife.net/shadow-artist-no-longer/
http://theartofmind.com/tag/julia-cameron/
Oh I’m sure a big part of it is that I’d love to have a large, funny group of creative friends, as I did in my thirties, before everyone paired off. And I’ve heard people in the “biz” say they don’t want to date someone in the industry but someone outside it, so it’s possible that could be a nice pairing for me, although thus far it hasn’t worked out. The thing is… it hasn’t worked out with anyone outside those fields either, and as I wrote elsewhere, although it’s a nice thought that I’m overlooking, say, some cute, sweet cop (a la Bridesmaids), in reality, all the men I’ve come across in other professions (firemen, police, carpenters, architects, engineers) here are married. When I’ve hit it off with someone in these other professions, inevitably they turn out to be writers or something on the side. And honestly, on the weekends, I can’t wait to escape the family/sports culture around here and go to some kind of arts/entertainment event!
Ditto with friends– rarely do I meet any peers who are not busy with families and who are truly available for friendship at this stage, and frankly, several of my old ties that are left are kind of toxic. So it’s not like I’m stepping over people to pursue someone “famous,” rather that I live a pretty solitary life and occasionally stumble across people, due to my outside interests, who catch my fancy. I do try to pursue my own creative interests on the side as well. It’s just that, as I said with the “embers,” there is still a slight, slight hope that I don’t have to be 100% solo in life, but as I also wrote, yes, I’m letting all those bad friendships die out as well as, perhaps, hopes for a certain type of fulfillment in a romantic relationship.
I moved to L.A. in the first place because I realized, in my mid-thirties, that the best friends I’d had over my entire life were all creative people. Non-creatives can be just as shitty people, with the added problem that we often don’t have much in common. I will say, though, that they can be more accessible (although way more apt to be settled with a spouse and kids).
I will also say, that a lot of people who go to college aren’t particularly intellectual, never read books once they graduate, and so on. Unless they are caught up in status issues, those people would probably be perfectly happy with a partner who isn’t all that intellectually inclined. But that’s not me, which does make things more difficult.
One more thing– I do have a few other single girlfriends my age, and they date much different types of men than me, but they have the same frustrations. So even though there are some unique challenges with people in the industry, I think dating as a woman over 35 just kinda sucks in general, and at least some of it has to do with the fact that older women just aren’t valued.
And sometimes I wonder if it’s all worth it at this age, when I read things like this:
http://www.theperimenopauseblog.com/why-do-wives-hate-husbands-in-perimenopause-a-wifes-perspective-part-ii/
I can relate to the feeling of relating more in some ways to those who are more similar to me and share some of my artistic creative passions, but I’ve found over time that those who’ve been important in my life are those who care about me and vice versa, and that that trait, just caring about each other, has been the most important thing.
I agree with this, baygirl. My life is a lot like yours in this regard.
I’ve known many, many artists, writers, painters, and musicians, both working and “talented hobbyist” and there is no correlation between this trait and their skill in friendship. Many of them are pompous and often, surprisingly, quite shallow, self-centered, and insecure, and in direct inverse proportion to the quality of art they produce. And don’t even get me started on “academics.” I have known only two exceptions in nearly 50 years, one a female playwright and the other a female poet and novelist.
Two of my favourite portrayals of the preening rituals and self-aggrandizement so common in the intelligensia are found in Roth’s “The Human Stain” and A.S. Byatt’s “Possession.”
I think perhaps that’s why I love James Joyce so much. He was the consummate artistic genius, but he wrote not about the intellectual and cultural elite (except to spoof them mainly – Stephen Deadalus excepted) but about ordinary working people. This is because he knew they were more interesting, and dollars for donuts had far more depth, and more compassion, than their more glamorous counterparts, ergo they were the best subject matter for the universal man of letters. He makes me see the heroism in the ordinary, and opened my eyes, again and again, to what really matters, as great art does.
And yet one more thing to add… the last roommate? Not a creative, and that didn’t work out so well either.
And yet one more thing to add… the last roommate? Not a creative, and that didn’t work out so well either.
Ranty,
Do you have a natural curiousity about other people’s lives/thoughts/experiences? The reason I ask is, there are a lot of interesting people who post here, sometimes with very interesting anecdotes, but your replies I find are often terse and, when they are longer, are focused almost 100% on you (YOUR feelings, YOUR thoughts, YOUR experiences). I don’t see much interaction where you reach out to the people by showing a mutual interest in them and the details of their lives.
I know this is a blog about your life and its details, but that is just a starting point., really. There is a real opportunity on every comment thread for you to interact with people in a way where there is mutual give and take (sharing of experiences, encouragement, etc) but I don’t see you doing that. If this dynamic carries over into real life it might explain why you are finding it hard to connect with people (both friends and in the romantic sense).
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh but that is how you come across to me, and not just in how you relate (or don’t relate, actually) to me, but also to the others. There is a real lack of warmth that I sense. There is a saying “to have a friend you have to be a friend.” This means showing a genuine interest in other people, not always bringing the focus back on you.
I’m not that different from you. I’m in my 40s, chidless, cerebral, cultured, literate, politically aware, intellectually curious, complex, introverted, cerebral with multiple advanced degrees and a professional job not in my field of choice that sucks a lot out of me. I like ethnic bistros, funky botiques, art musums, architectural walking tours, craft beer, poetry readings, PBS, NPR, old time acoustic music, cats, and farmers’ markets. And I’m not the only woman who has posted here who has said that dating over 35 has been a difficult but positive experience utimately where we found nice men. Yet you seem totally uninterested in learning from us as to how we accomplished it. I don’t understand this at all.
If I misunderstand the purpose of your blog I am sorry. If you accuse me of sexism or trolling , fine, but I hope that what I say might somehow help you think differently about some things in some small but real way.
Goodbye and good luck to you.
I have to agree with you Autumn.
Something is up here and it ain’t an overinterest in people or even a detachment borne of real life experience. I don’t even know why I read this blog anymore – it has such a hard shell of self-pity.
Ranty, it feels like you don’t want anything from people other than for them to listen until you decide you’ve had enough. You’ll have to get off your knees at some point though. Otherwise it’s going to be one long trip through the decades.
I do wonder at times if this blog is real. There are contradictions between posts among other things.
I have to say I agree with Autumn and Sinead here. You’ve got a lot going for you BB and I admire your uncompromising quest and intellectual engagement with this process, but I do find the almost total self-absorption quite deeply unattractive. You never seem to genuinely like anyone! Everyone, both on and off this blog, seem only to have relevance or interest to you to the extent they serve your purposes. I hesitate to say this as it’s a bit general and hard to see how it’s directly helpful. I also bear you no ill will at all and don’t mean to be unkind. But I’m lining up with A + S here, because I think there’s a real truth in their observations it’s likely to be affecting your relationships in the real world and it’s probably something that is worth your thinking about.
I see what Sinead, Autumn and Zoe are saying, too, Bitter Babe, and have for awhile. I do have a lot of sympathy for you, because l think dating is difficult if not impossible for all women in their forties. Also, if you connect best with a specific. rare set of people, that makes it even harder, and that’s not your fault, it’s just your personality.
However, l think what the others are saying has a lot of truth, and you’d be foolish to ignore what many people are saying. Your blog is very private, so we don’t really know what you’re like offline, or know the whole picture of your life. So I’m sorry if I end up being off-base.
(Continued) l just think there’s a mismatch between what you hope for in men, and what those specific types of men really want. You want someone who stimulates your mind, but are those men looking for a partner who does the same? And if they are, do you bring that to them? I ask because sometimes it seems you’re looking more for people who stimulate and excite you than being a creative, energizing person yourself. Well, you are creative, but really creative? Even on your blog, you link a lot to other people’s work. You’re a thoughtful person and you have many insights, so you have a lot to offer, but often it seems you just want people to absorb your ideas and agree with you than engage in give and take.
Probably best to not do anything else. If Mr. A hasn’t contacted you back he’s not interested. You don’t want to humiliate yourself any further. And if he is as great as you say he probably has a hot twenty year old girlfriend, these types always do.
Sorry to shatter your hopes.
(I apologise for any grammar or spelling mistakes. I’m not a native speaker.)
No grammar and no spelling mistakes. Stop saying that, Maria 🙂
Zoe, 🙂
I think Autumn (and others) touched on something that I have noticed too though I wasn’t quite so consciously aware of in quite the way she was able to articulate and am not able to articulare as well as she has. I do wonder if you are coming across in real life the way you do here, if maybe that is part of the obstacle for you? Then again it is a blog, anonymous and private, as you noted, and those things can affect how one can come across. Even when I comment I don’t like to reveal too much of myself online and maybe that affects the way I appear to others vs. how I really am. But I think since many readers are noticing the same thing maybe it’s worth looking at.
Ranty I’m sure dating at an older age is a challenge. I can’t speak to that at all. I do understand what you’re saying about creative vs. noncreative types. Basically either kind can be a challenge. I guess relationships of all kinds are not always easy really. I do like the “be a friend to have a friend” comment made above. Keep trying and in my opinion make a point to notice those who do you a kindness or take interest in you. I’ve found those are the people who have ended up being my most loyal and cherished friends. And it turned out a large amount of them do happen to be creative as well, but not all. Most important of all to me has just been having a good, true friend (same goes for romantic partner) regardless of their interests. Even if there is nothing else to talk about, no common intersts, which would be really hard to find no common interst whatsoever with somene, there is just the basic talking about the events of one’s life and one’s feeling with each other, as friends or spouses do. That is worth a lot!
well anyone who wants to follow my blog i mentioned, here’s the link.
http://www.limerickmedstudent.wordpress.com
click on the top right hand corner box thing to make the subscribe button appear.