the inactive
by rantywoman
From age 32-40 I was actively looking for a partner. I did a lot of online dating and dissected my romantic travails with my friends. A few would get annoyed with me, saying they didn’t want all our conversations to be about dating, but I think my behavior was pretty normal for my age, as 32-40 is the home stretch for creating a certain kind of family.
I get that annoyance now though, as I no longer consider myself actively looking. I’m open and hopeful but no longer go to events or places solely to meet men, and I no longer do online dating. My immediate goals do not revolve around marriage and children. Occasionally I now find myself bored with conversations about dating, but I try not to show it.
People are where they are and feel what they feel. Sometimes a romantic relationship is the top priority, and no amount of shaming is going to change that.
thebitterbabe 
Dear Bitterbabe,
I think you are making a mistake by not actively looking. While you have made yourself accessible and open to the possibility of meeting someone if fate should have it, at the same time you have already resigned yourself to never having a partner. As a fellow never-married, childless woman over the age of 40, we have to prepare ourselves with the very grave reality that we may end up unpartnered. So I commend you for preparing yourself, both emotionally and financially, for that grave reality.
There is a huge difference between CHOOSING to be partnerless and RESIGNING ourselves to be partnerless. Eleanore Wells of Spinsterlicious is a woman who never wanted a husband or a family — marriage was not for her. However, she does state upfront that she dates and she dates a lot. So, while she chooses to be partnerless, she is not choosing to be unattached even if her current circumstances are such that she is unattached.
Unlike Eleanore Wells, those of us who resign ourselves to being partnerless, face a potential unforeseen consequence of that resignation — that is, we also set ourselves up for being unattached. Compare to Eleanore Wells, a woman choosing a partnerless life, she is doing the opposite. If she is dating then she is actively looking, just not for a partner. So while we may have to accept that a mate is not ‘in the cards’ for us, we must be careful not to resign ourselves to always being unattached, ergo undesired.
Yes, people are where they are and feel what they feel. You are no longer seeking a husband, a life mate, or a partner; you are preparing your future accordingly. Good for you. Just be cognizant to not resign yourself to a personal life void of men. That sort of life would make me unhappy and I think it would for you too.
Yours,
An over 40 never-married kindred spirit.
Hi Sarah,
Good comment. I don’t understand this though – “If Eleanore is dating then she is actively looking, just not for a partner”. If she’s not looking for a partner e.g. boyfriend, then what’s she looking for? Only casual sex?
I can see there is a difference, in the same way there is being childless by choice versus being childless by circumstance.
However the comment “while she chooses to be partnerless, she is not choosing to be unattached even if her current circumstances are such that she is unattached” has me confused too. Unless you do mean casual sex, which Ranty mentioned in her reply, and honestly, not everyone is into that. Believe it or not, some women would prefer to do without sex, if the sex is not within a relationship, or potential relationship at least. Also, you do not see blogs about the difficulties a woman has in getting laid, because it’s just not difficult. Almost any woman who wants casual sex can get it easily.
Personally I see resignation as being similar to acceptance, which is a whole lot less stressful than constantly struggling to try and get something that is outside your control, and simply may not ever happen. To repeatedly expend the energy on something that gets you no results seems daft to me. Far better to direct your energies into something else that might actually provide some rewards for your trouble.
It is different if you actually enjoy the process, which some people do, as opposed to it feeling more like a chore. To my mind, the worst lifestyle in the world is one where I’d have to date “a lot”. Gah, I’d rather shoot myself in the head.
It’s also another case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I’ve heard “You will only find someone once you stop looking” and “You need to make an effort to go and find someone”. Sometimes it’s even the same person who will say both those things.
Oops, that should be “as Sinead mentioned in her reply”, since it was Sinead who wrote it above. Sorry Ranty.
MissM – what you’ve said here:
“Also, you do not see blogs about the difficulties a woman has in getting laid, because it’s just not difficult”.
So true!
Miss M, I couldn’t agree more. I had a conversation about “giving up” or “resignation” or “acceptance” with other single friends over the weekend. We were out for a few drinks and a chat in a popular pub. I was happy to chat and watch the world go by. My friends who are a similar age to me were not as relaxed. They were assessing every man who walked past “is he single?”, “what age to you think he is?”, “which of us is he looking at?” etc. Inevitably some men did come over and chat to us. One of the women was more proactive and dragged some men over. I made polite conversation with whoever spoke to me. I got bored and left early, leaving my friends to chat up the men.
The next day one of my friends called. Apparently one of the men was interested in me but I gave off the vibe that I was either married or had a boyfriend. A “not interested” or “couldn’t be bothered” vibe. This is what happens when you give up, you stop giving off hopeful (or what I call desperate) vibes. Believe me, what comes across as hopeful in a 25 year old comes across as desperation in a 45 year old.
It would be nice to meet someone but I feel it is unlikely to happen. At this stage going on dates is more like a chore and it is certainly not fun. Life is short, I work hard and I want to spend what little spare time I have enjoying myself, not chasing an increasingly impossible dream. Couldn’t be bothered vibes notwithstanding.
Yes, I find it very hard to strike any kind of reasonable middle ground between seeming “not interested” and seeming “desperate.” I probably will never meet anyone in a casual situation because of it. I think my best chance will be with someone, probably through work, whom I see repeatedly and can get to know over a period of time.
I’ve only gone on, I think, three dates in twenty-five years. Boyfriends and my ex-husband were all met via work, friends, groups, neighbours etc and we naturally glided into a relationship. When I get back to Ireland, I’d like to meet someone but the prospect of dating doesn’t appeal at all. I’m just going to get busy setting up my life again (finding work, joining groups, catching up with old friends) and if someone comes out of that woodwork, great.
Elle, if you’d like to meet up sometime, let me know.
Sinead, I’m sure you’ve heard how difficult it is to meet a partner in Ireland. Meetup groups are one of the best options, you can meet people with similar interests on neutral ground.
Yes, I’m in a few meetups here in The Netherlands and they have mixed results for friendship. Usual combination of it being easy to click and join, showing up and participating takes a bit more effort.
I never approached my meetup groups with a view to meeting someone because I was in the middle of my divorce storm. A homecooking group where single members cooked mid-week dinners for each other worked well (more single men than women here and interesting ones – they could cook, were sociable but confident to join a group on their own and liked talking about food and wine). A lot of the expat women’s groups didn’t appeal, as the community is too transient and the only thing I had in common with a lot of the women was that we were expats. When I get back to Ireland, I’m going to set up a women’s friendship group in the southwest, join writing and hillwalking groups and maybe set up a weekend singles homecooking group in Cork.
To be honest, I’ve never really struggled to make friends and meet partners. I can understand this isn’t the case for everyone though and it’s often not due to reasons specific to the person. One thing I always do, and I don’t know if this is useful or just plain obvious advice, is if I meet someone there’s a click with, I let them know before we part ways that I’d like to stay in touch with them, we swop numbers and then I arrnage to meet up with them soon after. Sounds basic but a lot of people don’t do this. It has worked out really well for me and I’ve made some genuine friendships with all sorts of people.
Re finding a partner, well if any of you have a dog, get walking. I am just back from the park with my two and there’s always more guys walking their pooches and the dogs are great ice-breakers.
Sinead, I live in the east. The southwest is quieter but people are probably friendlier. Meetup would be a good way to set up your friendship group. You could even arrange exchanges with Dublin groups if you wish.
If you are going to live in a rural area you may find that a few people view single women of a certain age with suspicion. This is something I am still coming to terms with after moving to a rural area 60km from Dublin. People who have lived in rural areas all their lives tend to think in a certain way and can be inflexible.
If you can work from home do it – long commutes leave little time to have a life.
The next day one of my friends called. Apparently one of the men was interested in me but I gave off the vibe that I was either married or had a boyfriend. A “not interested” or “couldn’t be bothered” vibe. This is what happens when you give up, you stop giving off hopeful (or what I call desperate) vibes. Believe me, what comes across as hopeful in a 25 year old comes across as desperation in a 45 year old.
Elle,
I would interpret what happened very positively – there is a man who expressed interest in you! Fair play to you – it should increase your confidence, even if you have zero interest in even going on a first date with him. You clearly are doing something right.
Not sure if I am reading you correctly, but I think you are perhaps setting up a false dichotomy between “not interested/couldn’t be bothered” and “desperate/hopeful.” I actually think “desparate” and “hopeful” are totally separate things (although the dividing line can be tricky). This leaves us three categories:
1. Desperate
2. Not interested/aloof/couldn’t be bothered
3. Hopeful/friendly/approachable
This third category is the key one to cultivate.
From your description of your evening, I believe that one of the things that attracted this man to you was the different vibe you gave off in contrast to your Category One (desperate) friends. He couldn’t quite suss if you fell into Category Two or Category Three. The only thing you need to add is a bit more friendliness/approachability IMO. Try to remember that most men suffer with “approach anxiety” (this is rarely talked about or admitted by them, but it’s true) and that as a female, you can help him overcome it be being approachable
Dear Sinead,
I don’t know what Ms. Wells is looking for. When she describes herself on her Spinsterlicious website in the “About” Section she states, “I am a heterosexual woman, I live in New York City, I love dating…and I date a lot.” Further on down she writes, “Marriage and Kids were never really in my plan.” So, I think she is dating for sex and companionship.
For purposes of this conversation, I define being partnered as either being married or committed and cohabitating (a domestic partnership if you will). Ms. Wells chooses not to be partnered but she is not seeking to be celibate; she is a healthy and active heterosexual woman who does have men in her personal life, as is attested to in her blog.
Most of us who read this particular blog do not consciously choose to be partnerless like Ms. Wells, yet that is the situation we find ourselves in. So even though we may have to accept our partnerless state, we don’t have to live a celibate life. I understand that choosing celibacy is empowering. However, unchosen celibacy is depressing. It can be very easy for those of us resigned to being partnerless, not by choice, to also find ourselves celibate, not by choice. I think the term is called “Involuntary Celibacy.”
For me, I may never be partnered but I do want a man in my life in some way, shape or fashion. Like Ms. Wells, I too am a heterosexual woman and I enjoy having the company of men (or a man) in my personal life. If we want or need the company of men, in whatever fashion, we cannot stop actively looking. So instead of looking for a partner, we just look for male company, sans sex as the case may be. We date. Just like Ms. Wells.
MissM,
My apologies for my poor wording: “while she chooses to be partnerless, she is not choosing to be unattached even if her current circumstances are such that she is unattached”
Yes, I can see why that would be confusing.
What I was trying to convey was that while Ms. Wells has made a choice to be partnerless, she is not making a choice to have a personal life void of men and intimacy, “unattached” if you will. I agree and understand that many women do not want to have sex outside of a relationship. Intimacy with a man does not have to equate to sex. For example, intimacy with a man could be having and sharing a meal with him.
I hope I have clarified my thoughts.
This may be getting close to arguing over semantics, in that what Ms Wells wants her man for may not be as relevant as the fact that she still wants one. She dates in order to get a man, for something, whatever it is.
If you are able to maintain a lifestyle of actively searching, without it being a drain on your stamina, and without it taking you away from what little time there might be available to spend doing things you might enjoy more, there is no problem. But it might be unreasonable to suggest to anyone to not ‘give up’ when the effort being asked of them is greater than what they have left to give. It becomes a matter of balancing cost to benefit, and if the benefit is not matching the cost in any way, it may be better to stop paying out.
If I go back to the old faithful analogy of dating being like playing the lottery, in that while you can buy many tickets to maximise your chances, you will never manage to guarantee a win. (Define ‘win’ as you wish, having a man to share a meal with, having a man to marry, whatever.) While there is absolutely nothing wrong with using your disposable income to buy lottery tickets, it is not recommended you spend your entire income on them. Not everyone is equal in the amount of disposable income they have available to them, and for some, lottery tickets might just have to fall off the list entirely.
Dear MissM,
I agree with your conclusion that Ms. Wells dates in order to get a man, for something, whatever it is.
I also know the feeling of not having the energy or the inclination or the stamina to go on another date. It just all seems so pointless. We always end up partnerless, regardless.
Most times, being partnerless makes me feel inherently undesirable.
What is the cure for that feeling of undesirability?
That’s why I stopped online dating– the cost to benefit ratio was way off!
Sarah,
I’m not MissM but am inclined to jump in.
I also know the feeling of not having the energy or the inclination or the stamina to go on another date. It just all seems so pointless. We always end up partnerless, regardless.
What you just wrote is not logical. Think about it: every single marriage (bar arranged or fraudulent ones) is preceded by some form of “dating.” Following your logic, if women always ended up “partnerless” there would be no weddings, yet we all know that weddings happen every single day!
Most times, being partnerless makes me feel inherently undesirable.
What is the cure for that feeling of undesirability?
By taking control of your dating life, that’s how. Action cures (or at least alleviates) all sorts of bad feelings. A few ideas:
1. You want a man in your life so this must mean that you really like men as a gender. Make a list of some of the things you think are wonderful about men, and refer back to it frequently.
2. Focus on making your appearance as pleasing to yourself as possible. Are you unhappy with your weight? Get onto a program to lose weight. Do you lack confidence in your hair and/or makeup? Invest the time and money to find out how you can improve these things.
3. Closely related to 2 is to dress as well as you can whenever possible. This means no more throw on jeans and a sweatshirt to go to the supermarket. Instead, when you go shopping dress like you are going on a first-date “coffee date.” When you go out to dinner or to a live event (music, etc) whether alone or with a group of friends, dress like you are going on a first dinner date. Do this every day and it will increase your self-confidence dramatically.
4. Make time for the things you feel passionate about that you already have done (gardening, golfing, cooking, sewing, dramatic arts, foreign language, music, etc.).
5. Make time to learn something new (gardening, golfing, cooking, sewing, dramatic arts foreign language, music, etc).
6. If you like intelligence in a man cultivate some new academic area. Coursera, Khan Academy etc. are free and fantastic resources. There are many benefits. It will help make you a more interesting conversationalist, for one.
7. If possible get involved in some activity where you use your time, abilities, or both to serve others for free.
8. If you have a bad mindset about men, change it. If you think “Most men are bastards” you will probably never succeed in attracting one. See my post on this thread about developing unconditional respect for the male gender.
9. Don’t overlook divorced fathers who are committed to their children. A man who treats his children well is a man with the right priorities.
Action alleviates depression. If you do these things and stick with it, you will find yourself looking toward the future with hope and confidence that there is a man out there who is looking for a woman just like you.
Finally, about online dating – I am a big fan, and I think especially for older women that to disregard it puts her at a disadvantage, but that’s another subject. NB: I met my S.O. online 🙂
Hope this helps and good luck 🙂
Thank you, Autumn, for a positive inspiring post.
If you wouldn’t mind, lets discuss BitterBabe’s situation. I’ve been reading her blog since its inception. She has more or less followed the suggestions you listed in your post (e.g. makes time to do things she is passionate about, makes time to learn something new, cultivates new academic endeavors, etc.) in her quest to find a suitable partner. Fifteen years later she is still partnerless, not by choice but because she was never chosen.
Given these set of facts, how would you advise a woman to keep from feeling undesirable? How would you advise a woman not to give up when the cost is not providing any benefit (as MissM mentions in her post)?
Looking forward to your response.
She has more or less followed the suggestions you listed in your post (e.g. makes time to do things she is passionate about, makes time to learn something new, cultivates new academic endeavors, etc.) in her quest to find a suitable partner. Fifteen years later she is still partnerless, not by choice but because she was never chosen.
Sarah,
I haven’t been following this blog as long as you, but I have some ideas about what BB is doing wrong. Let’s parse the above paragraph:
You mention only a subset of the items on my list, and while I doubt it was intentional, the ones you mention (4,5, and 6) are actually less important than the ones you leave out. I believe this is because you (and BB) don’t actually understand what most (> 90%+) heterosexual men are seeking in a woman (“male attraction triggers”).
The tasks from my list that address male attraction triggers are 1,2,3, and 8. 4,5, and 6 on their own (without 1,2,3, and 8) won’t help you very much. Think of all the items on my list as ingredients for a recipe for meatballs. 1,2,3, and 8 are the meat and the tomatoes. 4,5,and 6 are a pinch of various spices. Does that metaphor help?
I’ve posted a lot in recent weeks about male attraction triggers and how to stoke them. The posts got very little interest, which surprises me because so many women who post here seem to be looking sincerely for answers to their dilemma and not just a forum for venting per se. I don’t know how to get across to the women here that their dating strategies are unsuccessful largely because they fundamentally misunderstand male attraction triggers.
Two more points:
1. Most single women, BB included, do not seem to realise that in addition to wanting men to bring something to the table that she herself must offer something that a man is actually seeking instead of what she THINKS he is seeking, or thinks he SHOULD SEEK. To be successful with men, you must give him what he is seeking and to do this you must understand male attraction triggers.
2. Most single women, BB included, appear to have no idea how men’s minds or biology work, specifically when it comes to sex. They project their own thought processes onto men, believing that men respond to certain behaviours in the same way a woman would do. By moving relationships into a sexual arena at an early stage, women guarantee they will only be seen as “sex objects” by short-circuiting the chance of a man actually getting to know them and value them for something other than for sex.
Women today don’t like to hear “the problem lies primarily in your mindset” even though this is hopeful because this problem is entirely correctible. A woman can learn about how men think and can change her behaviour accordingly to get better results. In the old days it used to be called “self-improvement.”
Finally, I am speaking about the general nature of men and women – there are always outliers of both genders. I believe however that what I say about the male and female nature applies to > 90% of men and > 90% of women.
I hope this information is helpful to you.
For me, no amount of intellectualising, justifying, ‘acceptance’, resignation or looking at other people’s crap relationships and thinking, well at least that’s not me, makes a jot of difference to how I feel. As far as I can see it, I’ve got another 10, 20, 30 years of this to endure, and for what? To end up old, infirm and alone in some godforsaken ‘care’ home. No thanks.
For me, no amount of intellectualising, justifying, ‘acceptance’, resignation or looking at other people’s crap relationships and thinking, well at least that’s not me, makes a jot of difference to how I feel. As far as I can see it, I’ve got another 10, 20, 30 years of this to endure, and for what? To end up old, infirm and alone in some godforsaken ‘care’ home. No thanks.
Swisslauren,
The value in learning about the dysfunctional nature of many relationships is not to make yourself content with being alone, but rather, to get you to see that the reason you are alone is because you want something better than what many women have settled for simply in order to not be alone. This is somewhat subtle so bear with me.
The penny dropped for me a few years ago when I was asking my best friend (who is long married) “What is wrong with me?” Her answer was “Nothing is wrong with you. You could have a relationship tomorrow, but it would not have the qualities you are seeking. Most women are a lot less particular.” She was right.
Once I accepted that I was looking for a very particular type of man I began to get more confident that in time I would meet one, and I did (there were a lot of frogs in between BTW, but they were easy to weed out).
“Once I accepted that I was looking for a very particular type of man I began to get more confident that in time I would meet one, and I did…”
I haven’t got time. I’m 51.
I haven’t got time. I’m 51.
Your problem isn’t your age – it’s your attitude.
One of the recurring themes on this blog is how much of life, including relationships, are beyond a woman’s control. Although it’s absolutely true that no woman can control whether she finds a happy, committed relationship with a man she finds desirable, she can certainly INFLUENCE it by stacking the odds in her favour.
On this thread I have already seen that you suffer from the “all men are jerks/all men are the same” syndrome. Men can sense when a woman has a poor view of their entire gender and they will run a mile. What attracts them is the opposite, namely, a woman who has absolute respect for the male gender. How do you go about getting this respect? By focusing not on men like Jeremy Clarkson but on Men of Character.
“Where do I find ‘Men of Character’?” you ask. Start looking in your own life…a father, a brother, an uncle…if no such role models existed in your own family (sadly), did you have a male teacher who inspired you with his encouragement/warmth/practical leadership ability? Or perhaps a male boss or co-worker? These are the men you need to think about. When you start focusing these types of men in your day-to-day dealings, men like Jeremy Clarkson will have little relevance except as a reminder of what you need to steer clear of.
I have a long list of “men of character” both from real life and from history. Two of my favourites are Tom Crean and Ernest Shackleton. If you don’t know their stories, go read them and be inspired. A great website to start with is The Art of Masculinity. They do have some articles on Shackleton.
In sum, in order to influence your situation favourably you need to change your “All men are jerks” attitude and replace it with a new attitude called “I have absolute respect for the male gender.” If you can manage to do this your outlook will change, and, more likely than not, your future.
“To end up old, infirm and alone in some godforsaken ‘care’ home”
Being partnered up has nothing to do with that. The way I see it, we’ll all end up old, infirm and alone, unless we die before that happens.
Elle, I identify with a lot of what you’ve said. I hate that desperate vibe some women give off, and not just the middle aged ones, but I’ve been accused of coming over as not bothered on more occasions than I care to recall and that obviously doesn’t work either. If someone expressed an interest in me now I’d drop dead from the shock but presuming I didn’t I might still be tempted to do a little investigating.
Seems to me you either put up with bad behaviour or you end up on your own, which isn’t much of a choice as far as I can see. I’m obviously not saying everyone’s relationship is like this but they are surely numerous enough to make women who won’t or can’t put up with rubbish treatment give up in despair of ever finding a good one. None of which means I can endure chronic loneliness, which as we all now know – not that I needed any studies to tell me – can be devastating.
As for the tsunami of articles like the the one written by the woman in the Starfish post – because, let’s face it, they are ALL written by women – claiming to be ecstatic flying solo, they invariably end up with statements such as ‘like everyone else, I too wish I could find a handsome prince.’
Meanwhile, we are treated to the spectacle of slab-faced middle-aged oafs (yes, I’m talking about Jeremy Clarkson) and his numerous ongoing affairs and his hideous middle-aged peers brawling in the street in broad daylight for the affections of a 31-year-old underwear model, who may or may not be grateful for the attention.
Meanwhile, we are treated to the spectacle of slab-faced middle-aged oafs (yes, I’m talking about Jeremy Clarkson) and his numerous ongoing affairs and his hideous middle-aged peers brawling in the street in broad daylight for the affections of a 31-year-old underwear model, who may or may not be grateful for the attention.
So true. But you know why the underwear model is willing to be seen with Jeremy Clarkson and it’s not for his good looks and toned physique.
There are a couple of delusions many older women share. The first is that you somehow got better, you have more to offer because of your life experience, as you grew older. The second is that somewhere out there is a man who’ll love you for yourself.
Neither of these delusions is true.
In just the same way Jeremy Clarkson brings something to the table – his money and status – for the underwear model, older women must also bring something to the table for a potential partner. It’s hideously distasteful, sure, to think of human affairs this way, but it is what it is. And no, your job doesn’t count unless you’re willing to pay some dude’s living expenses, as that would certainly be bringing something to the table.
As a man, I’m quite used to the idea of being evaluated this way, in terms of my utility to a woman. As older women you need to come to terms with this.
Y’see, Mike, sad creepy misogynists are all part of the problem. And I didn’t say Jeremy Clarkson was seen with an underwear model.
“The first is that you somehow got better, you have more to offer because of your life experience, as you grew older.” Not a delusion, Mike Quite a number of men actually do feel that. Not all for sure. But plenty enough. And Amen, to that, say I, as my preference is for younger men. I know it doesn’t fit with your rigid and ideologically-driven world view – and I suppose one can confidently say that you won’t find them among your mates in the red pill sites – but there it is.
Quite a number of men actually do feel that.
Yes they do. If age is a man’s primary criteria you just need to say “NEXT!!!”
Here is one of the better articles I have seen that lays out in detail what most – and I say MOST because there are always outliers – men seek in a woman regardless of age. The Red Pill men don’t have this in their lives, so they turn their anger about its absence onto the female gender:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-urban-scientist/201206/ariadnes-thread-the-one-male-deal-breaker-in-relationships
zoe
Not a delusion, Mike Quite a number of men actually do feel that. Not all for sure. But plenty enough.
This is the hardest thing for you to come to terms with, I understand. It’s almost impossible for you, it’s just how your brain is hard-wired.
I’m not talking about casual sex, remember, I’m talking about commitment. COMMITMENT.
I’m sure you can find lots of younger men who find you acceptable for sex. That’s no achievement at all, except in your delusional world of projection where a man with a younger women would have something to brag about.
But a horny younger man with a fading older woman? For the woman that’s about as much of an achievement as getting fat and just as easy.
I’ve really come to the conclusion that most women are just flat-out incapable of seeing the world through a man’s eyes. The exceptions, like commenter autumn, are rare.
Except it’s not just about sex, Mike. That’s what YOU can’t see. I don’t divide relationships up into sex and commitment like you. I never have. I like to have relationships for as long as they’re good. After all, why have them when they’re no longer good? If a younger guy chooses to spend years of his life exclusively with an older woman when he could easily find someone attractive his own age, how else to describe that if not that he prefers to be with an older woman. Sorry, Mike. Although it pains you so because you can’t fit it into that prefabricated ideology of yours, you just don’t talk for all men – any more than I talk for all women.
zoe
If a younger guy chooses to spend years of his life exclusively with an older woman when he could easily find someone attractive his own age, how else to describe that if not that he prefers to be with an older woman.
I have no problem with that. Why would I? You’re describing the future for most women actually. The man’s priority is to avoid a lifetime commitment of paying for your sh!t. Sounds good to me.
We’re returning to the medieval practice of handfasting. An informal short term civil liaison until “one of us gets bored.”
If this is so easy for you, why are other women not handfasted?
autumn
Yes they do. If age is a man’s primary criteria you just need to say “NEXT!!!”
You’ve cracked it. Just reject the losers from that endless stream of suitors. lol.
I am, in fact, somewhat baffled by the tyranny of the all-consuming need/desire for a long term til-death-us-do-part relationship. This seems to be the cause of most of the misery on these and other pages.
Baffled? It’s a very practical accommodation for raising children in an intact and functional family. Which takes 20 plus years.
Yes. I have never wanted children, so this is part of the story. However many commentators are 40+, 45+, so my sense of wonder still remains intact.
It’s then funny that you complain about loneliness… I don’t get it.
Who’s complaining about loneliness? What don’t you get, Nana?
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean you specifically. But it’s indeed the main topic of the pages, including this blog. I don’t see how longing for lifetime companionship is a souce of misery (more than the loneliness that is caused by avoiding this kind of bond) and it’s kind of crazy to me that someone would think this way, even though I am really trying to follow your opinion.
I’m sorry, I still don’t understand your point. Who is the “you”? Do you mean the other people that have been advocating scepticism about LTRs? Who are they? Have they been complaining about loneliness? I must have missed that. Or do you mean the people who want LTRs? But then your point would make no sense.
Nana, you did this before with Sinead. Please use some care in your comments. Otherwise, people will find it irksome.
If you are “really trying to follow” my opinion, I simply advise reading the words.
autumn
Here is one of the better articles I have seen that lays out in detail what most – and I say MOST because there are always outliers – men seek in a woman regardless of age. The Red Pill men don’t have this in their lives, so they turn their anger about its absence onto the female gender:
That’s a very insightful article actually, though it tap dances around the issue in order not to enrage the women.
“The way to a man’s heart and soul is through his career. It is the battleground of his sense of identity, the vessel for his sense of purpose, and the victories won there, his most masculine measure of his rank, and role in society, and worth. Which in the end are all for you, to impress you, benefit you, and the children you may decide to bring into the world.”
A man wants a wife, not a coworker or a competitor. If you want to be your own husband, by all means, go ahead.
Thanks for the sermon, Autumn. I don’t read the Bible, but sounds like you might, so I guess you’re familiar with the phrase ‘pride comes before a fall’. Take heed.
Swisslauren,
If at 51 you are unable to distinguish between pride and well-intentioned, high-quality help then there isn’t much I can say that would be of any use to you. I didn’t spent time writing that comment just for you, however – my hope is that there are women out there who will find what I say valuable in improving their own lives.
Your dig at religion is an ad hominem which reveals a small-mindedness in your character which is unattractive. With that said, there are tons of men out there who share your fervent hostility toward monotheism, ergo I am baffled as to how, with 51 years in which to do so, you have not yet managed to pair off with one.
You know, you could be a right barrel of laughs if only you could take that rod out of your arse. Have a good evening.
You know, you could be a right barrel of laughs if only you could take that rod out of your arse. Have a good evening.
It looks like I hit a nerve. You have a good evening too 🙂
@autumn. “In the end, Theseus abandons her on an island”. Bit of a cautionary tale for the woman though, eh?
Yeah, it’s interesting isn’t it? But the writer does go on to say this:
So blind, unwavering support of men without placing boundaries and limits on that loyalty may not be the way to go either. A woman must have standards, an intuitive feel for the man’s compatibility, reliability and strength of character.
When there is a track record of not finding these in a particular man, it’s time to let go the Ariadne instinct in favor of more dominant, discriminating, feminine fortitude.
I think the article is respectful to both men and women, whilst still recognizing gender differences.
That’s not what happened. Ariadne was a branch swinger and she swung over to Dionysus. Or Dionysus took her. Either way it was out of Theseus’s hands.
Hypergamy, eh. You’re a hero among men, highly desirable, when suddenly, Bam!, your woman’s dumped you for a god.
Yeah, it’s interesting isn’t it? But the writer does go on to say this:
So blind, unwavering support of men without placing boundaries and limits on that loyalty may not be the way to go either. A woman must have standards, an intuitive feel for the man’s compatibility, reliability and strength of character.
When there is a track record of not finding these in a particular man, it’s time to let go the Ariadne instinct in favor of more dominant, discriminating, feminine fortitude.
I think the article is respectful to both men and women, whilst still recognizing not only gender differences but also human frailty.
Apologies for double post.
Yes, but it reads as a bit of a catch-up doesn’t it? After all, the meaning of most stories is determined by their ending! I mean, he looked a pretty good bet until he abandoned her, so how useful would that advice have been to her? All a bit post-hoc, isn’t it? Can’t help thinking of the many women who support their husband’s career, spinning their thread for all their worth, and get dumped.
“He [Theseus] carried off Ariadne [from Krete] and sailed out unobserved during the night, after which he put in at the island which at that time was called Dia, but is now called Naxos. At this same time, the myths relate, Dionysos showed himself on the island, and because of the beauty of Ariadne he took the maiden away from Theseus and kept her as his lawful wife, loving her exceedingly. Indeed, after her death he considered her worthy of immortal honours because of the affection he had for her, and placed among the stars of heaven the Crown of Ariadne [the constellation Corona].”
Apex fallacy, projection, you’re so predictable.
Most divorces are initiated by women. The only men that abandon their aging wives are a small minority of high value men with options.
I think the point is here:
So blind, unwavering support of men without placing boundaries and limits on that loyalty may not be the way to go either.
Ariadne’s problem wasn’t her method, but rather the fact that she went in head first and was not discerning enough. A wise woman moves much more slowly, and only in response to a man she has qualified over a long period of time i.e. it is ghis job to win her, not the other way around.
A wise woman moves much more slowly, and only in response to a man she has qualified over a long period of time i.e. it is his job to win her, not the other way around.
Hallmark called, they want their 1950s sentiment back.
And Mike leaves the stage again chuckling at how easily he has wound the women up by doing nothing more than throwing in a few smart arsed remarks.
If you nip on over to a red pill site you see the same thing – the occasional woman trying earnestly to express herself and make herself understood while the men circle her throwing out dismissive and often unrelated comments – the verbal equivalent of someone poking you in the back until you turn around then they run away laughing.
I am never entirely clear whether it is simply because men and women have different communication styles but in general it seems women try to engage with each other and explore concepts, while men are just content to state their point of view over and over again and use a battering ram to get it across. Or maybe it is symptomatic of a particular type of man that just gets his kicks out of winding women up.
No matter, the mistake women make I think in dealing with men like Mike is taking him at face value and treating him as they would a woman i.e. trying to understand his perspective and responding to what he is saying on the assumption that he wants to rationally discuss his viewpoint, when really all he wants to do is wind women up. In real life he would be the husband who would dismiss what his wife said to him if he didn’t agree with it, reduce her to tears of frustration, and then tell her she had mental health problems while calling her ‘dear’.
If you nip on over to a red pill site you see the same thing – the occasional woman trying earnestly to express herself and make herself understood while the men circle her throwing out dismissive and often unrelated comments – the verbal equivalent of someone poking you in the back until you turn around then they run away laughing.
This isn’t specific to the Red Pill. It’s a bog-standard Alinsky tactic I call “bait, ridicule, and isolate” that you will find all over the internet, where nearly all “debate” is conducted at the level of the gutter. Militant atheists use it frequently against monotheistic believers (particularly conservative Christians and Jews), and in U.S. political debate the Left uses it against the Right (“Right-Wing fascists”) and vice-versa (“libtards”).
It’s very difficult to find reasoned debate about divisive issues anywhere on the internet. Leah Libresco has done a lot of good work on this in her posts about the Intellectual Turing Test. Similarly, some Catholics set up a website called “Strange Notions” to provide a forum where Christians and Atheists could engage intelligently and where Alinsky tactics would not be tolerated on either side. I don’t know of any equivalent to “Strange Notions” when it comes to Red Pill issues, unfortunately.
I am never entirely clear whether it is simply because men and women have different communication styles but in general it seems women try to engage with each other and explore concepts, while men are just content to state their point of view over and over again and use a battering ram to get it across. Or maybe it is symptomatic of a particular type of man that just gets his kicks out of winding women up.
I don’t think it has anything to do with gender, although it tends to manifest differently in men because of gender differences (male dominance in particular).
It is a myth that women as a whole engage more rationally then men. For example, take a look at my response on this thread to Swisslauren in response to her poignant complaints about her middle-aged loneliness. Did she attempt to discuss or debate my point that a big part of the problem is correctable and that she would be more successful with men if she began to respect the male gender as a whole? No, she threw out an ad hominem about Christianity – despite the fact that I have never discussed the Bible or my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) on this blog. Moreover she will probably come back on a future thread complaining again about how lonely she is – it boggles the mind really.
Sorry that is the Idealogical Turing Test not “Intellectual.”
BTW Libresco is a single woman who graduated from Yale. She is a former atheist who converted to Roman Catholicism.
Ah, I didn’t say i thought women engage more ‘rationally’, just that we engage more 🙂
But I think there are different communication styles in general for each sex. When you look at the redpill sites (and those are the only male sites I look at to be honest so I assume they are representative of men, but they may just be representative of redpill men), there is a posting, and then a series of comments below the posting from men but they aren’t related to each other. The posters don’t seem to get into any kind of discussion with each other, unlike on women’s sites. Each poster says his bit, then moves on. Women seem to have a tendency to discuss what’s being said, like a continuing conversation, like we are doing here.
Ah, I didn’t say i thought women engage more ‘rationally’, just that we engage more 🙂
But I think there are different communication styles in general for each sex.
Apologies Fi for putting words in your mouth – I should have read more carefully!
Men and women definitely have different communication styles. They are, as you describe, more “collaborative” then men (or, as my S.O. says, “It takes men 45 seconds to plan what it would take a group of women 20 minutes” lol).
With that said, if you go on Red Pill sites where nice men tend to cluster (such as DIY sites or sporting sites like Singletrackforum) you will find that they are extremely collaborative when it comes to solving a problem such as “How do I fix ….[fill in the blank].
On Red Pill sites, they do follow the pattern as you describe, however, I don’t know if this is because of male communication style or the fact that most Red Pill men are immature and self-centered (“it’s all about me, me, me”). The only place I have seen them go into collaborative mode is on Roissy or the PUA forums when they critique each others’ “text game,” “day game,” etc. (NB: They sound just like a group of single women dissecting a date e.g. “Then she texted [fill-in-the-blank]. What do you think she meant?” it’s hysterical).
The best communicator I have ever met in my life was a male. He was a co-worker with very strong alpha frame who listened carefully to everything anyone said, no matter how annoying, verbose, emotionally charged, or ridiculous, but always brought the discussion fairly quickly to a fruitful end where everyone felt heard and everyone was happy. I was in awe.
I once asked him, “Where did you learn to do that?” His reply: “Twenty years of marriage.” 🙂
Sorry, that should say:
“With that said, if you go on non-Red Pill sites where nice men tend to cluster”
“I have seen them go into collaborative mode is on Roissy or the PUA forums when they critique each others’ “text game,” “day game,” etc. (NB: They sound just like a group of single women dissecting a date e.g. “Then she texted [fill-in-the-blank]. What do you think she meant?” it’s hysterical)” – I feel a google search coming on…..
But actually I agree with your experience of a superb male communicator. My experience is the same – working with men who are all excellent communicators. But maybe that is the nature of the work I do and that men who weren’t wouldn’t be able to function at all satisfactorily in the job. Having said that though I know plenty of men who are able to examine their thoughts and emotions, and manage them and articulate them clearly, so actually maybe it is because these men have poor communication skills that they can’t get women and end up on those sites?
maybe it is because these men have poor communication skills that they can’t get women and end up on those sites?
I don’t think “communication skills” is the issue. A lot of Militant Red Pill men are very analytical and intelligent (a lot of successful businessmen and STEM guys).
I tend to think the real reason they can’t get women is simply because (1) they don’t fully understand them (we’ve discussed this before) and (2) they despise them. It makes sense though: why would they bother to try people that they despise?
Similarly, they loathe and revile “betas” because betas get the women 🙂
Fi,
This thread has a little of the “male support group” talk I was referring to.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/transitioning-as-a-game-tactic/#comments
If I run across a really entertaining one I will post it. I have a weak stomach so I only dip into Roissy periodically 🙂
I think these red pill blokes are very unattractive though. Both the before version (and obviously other women do too or they would get women and not need to go on these sites) and the after version (basically trying to pretend they’re bad boys because bad boys have always been successful with young girls). The ones who get the balance right between being confident men who treat women nicely are the ones that get the women and don’t trawl round these sites. And they don’t have a massive chip on their shoulder about women either – they just get on with it. And they may be very clever, but clever doesn’t equate to being able to speak to people. And I sometimes think reading these guys comments that they seem almost autistic/aspergers in the way they relate to the world. But I bet anything that these blokes don’t have female friends (well we know they don’t) but I bet they also have very few, if any, male friends, although they may have someone they play an x-box game with or similar, and they probably have problems with interpersonal relationships at work too. There is NO WAY that these are blokes who get on with people when they drag themselves away from their laptops. I mean boys and girls learn social skills as they grow up, and confidence, and how to get on with people, and how to talk to the opposite sex – what has gone on in these guys lives that they haven’t learned how to do these things?
There is NO WAY that these are blokes who get on with people when they drag themselves away from their laptops
The hardcore regulars do little other than work (if they have a job) and post on Red Pill sites. You will see the same names pop up repeatedly across a wide array of Red Pill sites (and these are only the site I come across when I lurk – most I read only very infrequently (such as the Roosh forum, Vox Day, etc) and there are dozens I never, ever read – so I am seeing only a subset of posts by these people!)
There is no way some of these people could post so frequently and in so many damn places if the Red Pill subculture was not at the absolute centre of their lives.
And they tend to treat each other like sh*t. The Sunshine Mary an Danny 504 thing, for example. Interestingly, I tried a few years back to reach out to a few of the women but I found them rude, self-centered (“it’s all about me, me, me”), and lacking in any real warmth. None was interested in an email friendship.
Perhaps we should just refer to it as “Red Pill Solipsism” lol.
@Autumn – thanks for the link. Sadly it illustrates just how incompetent they are with women. My son who is 21 had his first girlfriend at 14 and is now on his 4th and these are all relationships that have lasted a minimum of a year each. So he is obviously doing something right to attract girls and keep them. so it’s not all men but just some. But wait! Shouldn’t he need these sites? Brought up by a single mother (me) and with a sister, surely he should be damaged in some way with absolutely no ability to relate to women/girls? or he should pay for everything and do everything for them? No?
So he is obviously doing something right to attract girls and keep them.
Fi,
I have strong powers of observation and analysis and over the years have parsed a lot of Red Pill data. I have reason to believe that these men almost universally had/have very bad relationships with their mothers. This is why your son isn’t one of them 🙂
Selective as ever, Mike 😉 When in doubt…Wikipedia… Please note the phrase “most other accounts”: “In Hesiod and most other accounts, Theseus abandoned Ariadne sleeping on Naxos, and Dionysus rediscovered and wedded her”
It’s almost like the Bible. There’s a version for everybody.
Fi
I am never entirely clear whether it is simply because men and women have different communication styles but in general it seems women try to engage with each other and explore concepts, while men are just content to state their point of view over and over again and use a battering ram to get it across.
Well, I’ll explain. Men are stuck with the burden of always competing. Even when men cooperate, as in business or war, the cooperation is always within the context of a dominance hierarchy.
What men don’t like to do at all is plead or supplicate. The response to a supplicating man is always disgust. In contrast, the King will often grant the wishes of a supplicating woman.
This explains, incidentally, why women have been so successful in collectively turning Western society upside down. Rank and file men are literally incapable of mounting a collective response in their own defense.
So…to explain my facetious Hallmark comment.
The rules of the sexual marketplace are set by women. Always have been, always will be. So when autumn described her very traditional strategy of a wise woman moving slowly and making a man qualify himself over a long period of time, I had two thoughts: (1) too late for that; (2) the classic red pill response that nice guys wait for sex and then pay everything they have while bad boys get it right away for free. And yes I understand NAWALT etc.
I could have taken the time to lay all that out in a logical fashion. Pleading that you accept my point of view if you will.
Or I could make a facetious comment that shows I disagree with autumn’s point while also maintaining a cocky, dominant and irritating frame. While women just find this annoying this is an obviously winning strategy for a man.
So now you know.
well it’s a winning strategy if you want to be annoying.
It must be hard being a man sometimes and having to jostle all the time for position which I’m sure they do even though we womenfolk don’t really notice it. At least women do it behind each others backs. (joke 🙂 )
ROTFL!!!!
The annoying part is seeing women use the power of government to create special privileges as a protected class within male dominance hierarchies.
That’s an interesting point Mike. Can you provide some examples to illustrate?
That’s an interesting point Mike. Can you provide some examples to illustrate?
You’re kidding, right? Look around. I don’t know what country you’re in but in the UK it’s called positive discrimination.
Here in the USA you can’t take a step without tripping over some kind of affirmative action for women. The entire public education system has been redesigned around female preferences. Higher education, jobs, the armed forces, etc., etc.
The fact you don’t see this is hilarious.
Examples. lol.
It’s a woman’s world now. The shortage of suitable mates is just one outcome.
well that’s why I’m asking for examples as I’m not aware of any positive discrimination for women in the UK. Can you provide any evidence to support your statement that “women use the power of government to create special privileges as a protected class within male dominance hierarchies.” And can you clarify what male dominance hierarchies are? Are you just providing your opinion as evidence?
It isn’t my fault that you just don’t understand the nature of male organizations. Do I really have to explain this?
General>Colonel>Lieutenant Colonel>Major>Captain>Lieutenant>2nd Lieutenant>etc., etc.
That’s a dominance hierarchy.
Positive discrimination. Let me Google that for you.
You’re like children. You think the car you drive and the house you live in both grew out of the ground like mushrooms.
Fi,
See if you can find the book “Hardball for Women.” It’s for the workplace and the best thing I have seen on this subject (male dominance hierarchies).
I would recommend it to all the ladies here who work.
God I really wish the red pill analysis would stop. The guys on those sites are retarded. There’s no further analysis required. Could we move on to something more positive or at least proactive? It’s like hating mars bars and spending all day talking about them.
ok. What do you want to talk about?
anything but red pill. i’m reading reconceiving women by mardy ireland. it’s excellent. anyone else read it?
No, but I’ve heard it hasn’t got very good reviews. Your views?
i’m surprised. the overwhelming review of it was that it was a pathbreaking book. if anyone picks up a copy, feel free to discuss if you want.
i’m reading reconceiving women by mardy ireland. it’s excellent. anyone else read it?
Had not heard of it but thanks – it looks really interesting. I will add it to my Amazon wish list.
Have you ever heard the song “Miss Eulalia Thomas” by Claudia Schmidt? Here are the lyrics:
http://www.claudiaschmidt.com/music/it-looks-fine-from-here/lyrics/
Sinead,
Sorry you don’t find this interesting and/or relevant, but others here (such as Fi and myself) do. The blog’s purpose is not to provide only posts that are interesting to Sinead. Why don’t you just skip over them?
One thing I really like about this blog is the blog admin is tolerant about diversity in that that there are a wide variety of issues that are discussed from different, often conflicting points of view. It is interesting to hear what other single women think about different subjects. If a post (or a particular poster) bores me then I just ignore them.
I don’t think the blog’s purpose is to entertain me. I just don’t get how so much mileage can be gotten out of the “analysis” of red pill websites. It’s in so many comments of many recent posts and never really goes anywhere because there’s nowhere to go with it. I’ll keep skipping until discussion returns to a foundation not built on retarded men’s perception or behaviour towards women. It’s also pure bait for Mike to come in with more counter arguments, leading to illogic layered over illogic.
Moreover, reading Red Pill sites transformed my relationships with men for the better (Fi and I have both written about this elsewhere) – not “changed it for the better” but TRANSFORMED it. With so many women on here looking for answers about how to improve their relationships with men – some of whom are desperately confused and unhappy – it seems to be a very appropriate topic – unless of course the women here just want to complain and commiserate without ever considering let alone finding any solutions.
If Rantywoman tells me to stop talking about it I certainly will.
It’s also pure bait for Mike to come in with more counter arguments, leading to illogic layered over illogic.
Remember, you are free to ignore Mike too 🙂
It’s also pure bait for Mike to come in with more counter arguments, leading to illogic layered over illogic.
The discussions on the Red Pill have nothing to do with why Mike posts at this blog.
Hey, keep talking the red pill party line all you like. I hope tt’s discovered though that there are more than two possible topics – talking red pill or complaining/commiserating – or one possible information source. I couldn’t imagine red pill sourced advice being a huge comfort to someone “desperately confused and unhappy” and can’t remember seeing any feedback saying same but maybe the women looking for answers are silently clapping in the background. Who knows. If we were sitting at a canteen table, I’d have gotten up and left at this point, so that’s probably the best action now.
i guess I talk about red pill stuff because this is the only place I can. None of my friends are interested in it and I am simply because I find it fascinating getting an understanding of what makes people tick. And it does provide useful insights into what men in general think as well as their sub species Redpill. Other women’s stuff – that bores me to be honest – is there anything left to talk about when you’ve been around a few years and you’ve got female friends? it’s just the same old same old re-packaged into different formats and I feel I haven’t heard anything new for a long long time. No original thoughts anyway and I guess that’s why I again like reading the red pill stuff as at it’s original thinking.
Hey, keep talking the red pill party line all you like.
I have never taken the “Red Pill Line” and if you think I have you have misunderstood my posts. What I have said is that the Red Pill understands male attraction triggers, and that gaining this knowledge is extremely helpful to women.
I hope tt’s discovered though that there are more than two possible topics – talking red pill or complaining/commiserating – or one possible information source.
If you think all my knowledge about life is confined to Red Pill sources you have never seen my library.
I couldn’t imagine red pill sourced advice being a huge comfort to someone “desperately confused and unhappy” and can’t remember seeing any feedback saying same but maybe the women looking for answers are silently clapping in the background. Who knows. If we were sitting at a canteen table, I’d have gotten up and left at this point, so that’s probably the best action now.
Well, I can only speak anecdotally, but I started looking for a LTR in my forties after I had taken the Red Pill and I found someone pretty quickly. There were a lot of nice men to choose from, and I picked the one I felt was the best match for me.
You come off as being extremely confident and perhaps not to bothered about being single, but there are many other middle-aged women here who from what they write would like to go through exactly what I went through, that is, being able to find a quality man (or be in a position to pick a quality man from a pool of quality men). If you look at my posts on this thread you will see that I am trying to give them some tools to do exactly that, including building of confidence (take a look at my post to Elle, for instance). NB: My posts aren’t intended for women like you and Zoe.
I like women and I care about them. I believe in women helping other women, not competing with them. But I have a Second Wave feminist background where the importance of doing this (valuing other women and helping them) was taught to me by older feminist mentors. The Third Wave of feminism is much more individualistic IME.
About Miss Eulalia Thomas – there is some background to that song that Schmidt gave when she introduced it in a concert I saw about 20 years ago. She said that in her local library there was a list of names of members from the local ladies’ literary society back in the early 20c. They all had names like “Mrs Charles Jones,” “Mrs William Smith,” etc….all except for “Miss Eulalia Thomas.” She started wondering who Miss Eualia Thomas was, and the song was the result of that. 🙂
The lyrics are great. Think I might try to find it. I never changed my name any of the times I got married. I do sometimes wonder whether I should have…
I am a big believer in free speech, and so don’t mind reading (or in truth, occasionally only glossing over) the “red pill” contributor(s) to this discussion. However, I find their palpable anger and resentment towards women like myself to be more than a bit misplaced. I for one never thought I was “entitled” to marry some rich, handsome Prince Charming type and bear his children only to discard him and have him pay me alimony for the rest of my life. No, to the contrary, in my youth I was a quiet, shy, studious girl who knew from an early age that I didn’t want children; I somewhat surprisingly turned out to be an attractive woman with a number of suitors, but at some point I observed that it would be ruination to become dependent on a man who likely would ditch me once I reached middle age (divorce rate = 50%). So I kept plugging away at my career, and although I had several long term relationships none of them ever quite “gelled,” mainly over the child issue (fair enough). Now I am of an age where I readily acknowledge the fact that I have no status whatsoever in the dating marketplace, and I have quietly accepted that fate. I am and will remain on the sidelines of life, enjoying what I can, mainly in the arts, serving on several boards, and continuing to support myself and assist other family members. I travel, I have a relatively pleasant life by all outward standards. It’s not terrible. I completely “get” why I ended up alone, and having said that, I’m still not sure I would have made different choices. Nor does that change the corrosive loneliness that I suffer, and I don’t need to be abused by these guys who clearly were the ones in high school and college who were made fun of by the head cheerleader or prom queen or whatever, and apparently never got past it. I’m sorry that they were ill-treated, albeit NOT BY ME, neither in my younger days nor now. I see no need to subject myself to THEIR unkindness now, which I’ve done nothing to deserve. I will continue to check out what Ranty has to say from time to time, but I’ve looked at (and posted) my last comment. Good luck to you all.
I don’t need to be abused by these guys
MissBates,
This isn’t a Red Pill site. The only Red Pill Man who posts here at this site is Mike. He outed himself as a troll several threads back. Trolls go away when ()a they are banned or (b) you stop feeding them (I have no idea why people keep feeding Mike.).
You raise a lot of interesting points and speak for many about life’s limitations and compromises, and I think you should stick around and continue to post.
I used to lurk on The Plankton’s blog and it seems the same old faces are on this one too, spouting the same old rubbish and still taking great delight in running down their own sex while sucking up to sad old creeps, in the apparent belief it somehow makes them look cool and independent and not like the rest of us ‘moany’ women. FYI ladies, it doesn’t, it just makes you look terribly sad, lonely and desperate for attention.
Such a shame that these people drown out the thoughtful, intelligent commenters but isn’t that much like life.
Good luck with the blog, Rantywoman. I’d like to have stuck around and posted more but when you can feel the life blood being sucked out of you it’s probably time to take your leave!
I must say I consider it a great loss, MissBates, if you were to never comment again. Your posts are consistent in being well reasoned and thoughtful, and it is obvious, to me at least, that they come from a person who has experienced life and is able to examine circumstances with a calm intelligence. Actually, the calm intelligence that emanates from your posts is what I look forward to as the antidote to the anger and resentment that is indeed palpable from some contributor(s). I will certainly miss them when they cease.
I believe in free speech too, but I’d ban Mike in a heartbeat if it meant not losing worthwhile contributors like yourself. (Not that it would help, he’d only set up a new identity and be back.) To not comment at all in future because of people as useless as him, would be giving those people way too much power. I consider it more worthwhile to simply ignore any and all posts from such trolls. I’ve done so for ages now, it’s much nicer.
But I understand there is only so much a person can tolerate. I found I needed to take a break for a bit myself. But that is the nice thing about the internet, I can leave and come back according to how it suits me. I truly hope it suits you at some point to come back. Either way, I thank you for your contributions so far, and truly wish you good luck.
I too find a lot of the comments on here off point and tedious… I’m sure we’d agree on which ones. There are some I delete, when the person doesn’t have anything valuable to say and just spews trash.
MissBates, you will be missed. You were on of the more rational voices on the Plankton blog. It is a shame that blogs such as this get taken over by people who have no idea what it is like to be a single woman of a certain age whether this is by choice or not.
Rantywoman puts up some very interesting articles and it would be a shame to see her hounded off the internet by trolls.
Good luck to red pill men and their websites. Sadly they are taking their rage out on women who they probably ignored in their youth over the hot women who ignored them. The hot women who ignored them are not here – they are probably married to alpha males and raising several women.
We quieter women kept our heads in our books and worked hard, knowing that it was best to fend for ourselves and not depend on anyone else for a living. Some of the hot girls worked hard too knowing that marriage/relationships may not be forever.
I would like to see more posts here about the economic issues faced by single women. In Ireland married people have double the tax free allowance of single people yet single people may have to run a house all by themselves while married people can share costs. This applies to single men too.
I mean raising several children, not raising several children. They are raising boys as well as girls.
I forgot to add that I sometimes think some of the “women” here are actually red pill men in drag.
I believe in free speech too, but I’d ban Mike in a heartbeat….
The irony of this is just how many of BB’s blog posts pass without comment.
When I drop by BB gets…..100+ comments.
But, as you wish.
Mike, some of the better posts actually pass without comment. BB would be missed if she went.
Just one more post before I go, if BB will permit it, because I genuinely feel sorry for some people.
Mike, you have obviously been hurt by a woman (or women) in the past and allowed that hurt to fester and poison your opinion of the whole of womankind. But we are NOT all the same, just as I know that not all men are the same, however much some of them have messed me around, and they have. Trust me, there are times when I have wished that the whole male sex would turn into a giant voodoo doll so that I could torture it with a massive pin but, for my own sanity if nothing else, I have had to let those thoughts go. And you should too. I worry about what people like you do to their children, because even if you try to hide your your warped views from them, they are not stupid and they WILL pick up on them. Do you really want to send you son(s) off into the world with a ready made hatred of half the human race? Or erode your daughter'(s) self esteem to the point where she will have no choice but to seek out men who despise her and treat her badly? Do yourself – and your family – a favour and consider seeking a counsellor or a therapy group. It may not feel like it but there is help out there.
“None of my friends are interested in it and I am simply because I find it fascinating getting an understanding of what makes people tick. And it does provide useful insights into what men in general think as well as their sub species Redpill.”
Fi, do you really want to spend the time you have left on earth getting “insights” into how these men “think” (and no, they are not a reflection of what men in general think, they are damaged and need help). Do you feel such a sense of pointlessness that you would fritter your life away lurking on websites full of men who hate you and are laughing at you? Why do you think your friends aren’t interested when you try to engage them in such hateful nonsense – you’re lucky if you haven’t driven any of them away. And then to go and slag them off for being boring! I remember you from The Plankton’s blog, saying this same thing over and over again, and running other women down in the process, for years on end. Do you not see the irony there? Why not start an evening class, do some voluntary work, take up a hobby, join a knitting circle. ANYTHING! rather than fill your head with this shit day in day out. It’s pitiful.
Autumn, I have obviously no idea what you’re like in real life, maybe you are pleasantness itself, but do you really think that telling someone you’ve “known” online for all of ten seconds that the reason they are alone is because of their “attitude” is the way to go about things? Or is it your intention to get people’s backs up? Because if it isn’t you might want to think about developing some social skills. Just remember this: you don’t KNOW anything.
To be honest I don’t spend my days readig red pill sites as I do have a lot going on in my life and I’m not sure what gave you the impression otherwise. I have a job and friends and (sorry to say this now) but I also have a man in my life. Nonetheless I have an enquiring mind and just find other people interesting. Sorry. I recognise though that this stuff is boring for some people so i will just shut up about it, but live and let live and all that 🙂
Autumn, I have obviously no idea what you’re like in real life, maybe you are pleasantness itself, but do you really think that telling someone you’ve “known” online for all of ten seconds that the reason they are alone is because of their “attitude” is the way to go about things? Or is it your intention to get people’s backs up? Because if it isn’t you might want to think about developing some social skills. Just remember this: you don’t KNOW anything.
You might want to take a look in the mirror Swisslauren.
My first interaction with you on this blog was a post with encouraging words to your heartfelt expression of loneliness and you responded with a single line. Not even a “hey, thanks for your encouragement, but….”
My second interaction with you (where I probably should have used the word “mindset” instead of “attitude” – live and learn) prompted an ad hominen about religion.
And finally there is the post where you divide women into two categories – those like yourself who are single and can’t find anyone, and those who, because they are paired, “put up with bad behaviour.” That is quite a sweeping insult to level at all of your sisters who are paired up (such as Fi, myself, and chickpositive). This is actually the one that prompted me to post about your mindset (or “attitude”), which I suspect from the evidence (although you are correct – I do not KNOW for certain) which appears to be quite sour.
But far be it for to say that you might want to ask yourself whether or not you have the integrity to lecture someone else about their “social skills.”
Do yourself – and your family – a favour and consider seeking a counsellor or a therapy group. It may not feel like it but there is help out there.
Never seen that before. lol.
My son’s at an Ivy League university as we speak. My daughter’s headed that way – she wants to be a neuroscientist and/or a psychologist. She’s also very pretty and is popular with the boys. Her current boyfriend is probably headed to MIT.
I’ve had long conversations with both of them on the topic of evolutionary biology. Each gets different advice of course. My daughter understand the concept of the fifteen magical years of womanhood – ages 15 to 30. She’s naturally conservative, she wants to be a wife and mother and I have no doubt she’ll make good decisions.
but live and let live and all that
Slightly disingenuous coming from someone who spent years snapping and snarling at all and sundry if they dared to disagree with you!
Where has Fi ever “snapped” at someone who disagrees with her? Please link to the posts.
Fi is so laid back she is horizontal. I have read her posts for years. The only person she ever “snapped” at was Mike, and that was because his obnoxious misogynistic rants provoked her.
Thanks autumn. It’s Rosie from planktons site and she doesn’t like me, and now you it would seem. Not realy sure why to be honest but we obviously rub her up the wrong way
Hey Fi,
I’m gonna set up a placeholder blog so the readers here who are interested in self-improvement/male attraction triggers can post. I really don’t want to derail ladies like Rosie any further 🙂 Which is a shame because I like Rantywoman – she is so like me sometimes it is scary….but I digress.
I’ll post the link when I get a chance to set one up.
I used to lurk at Plankton too and I miss it.
And congrats on your new bloke 🙂 It’s very like you to never mention it before, and that speaks volumes about your personality and character.
Yes do please. I’d be interested in it 😉 thanks too
Hi Fi,
Here is the address. I will put some contact details up later today or tomorrow 🙂
https://autumnrtl.wordpress.com
See ya, and anyone else who is interested in these ideas, later.
Ah Rosie – I’d wondered what you’d been up to 😉
No Fi, I am not “Rosie.” I’ve already said that I didn’t post on the Plankton’s blog. It would seem that you have a knack of making yourself unlikeable.
Autumn, I was referring to the above blog, not BB’s. I have only just starting reading this one – and won’t be reading any more. Good luck to you both.
Well you use her phraseology and language and express the sentiments she does in the same aggressive way so I think you are. Because the thing is we do reveal a lot of ourselves when posting and I do find you interesting too. 🙂
Yes – her posts are very aggressive. Just look at the hostility in response to the first two posts I directed at her. Yikes. And I do think much about a person’s character can be sensed from their writing style – but I am a writer so I love words 🙂 or as the lesbian-feminist folksinger Ferron once said:
“You know me, I hold to words I hold them tight….”
People who behave like this are their own worst enemy.
I wonder if Elle thinks we are red pill men “in drag.” Would a red pill man listen to Claudia Schmidt and Ferron? Lol.
I’m afraid I have had a look at Rosie’s emoticon on Plankton’s site and it is identical to Swisslauren’s emoticon here. And as each emoticon is unique and generated from an individual’s email address they are the same people.
However…… the key interesting thing to me is HOW DID WE ALL KNOW THAT IT WAS THE SAME POSTER? It is really amazing how much of ourselves we reveal through our writings while being completely oblivious to that.
I’m afraid I have had a look at Rosie’s emoticon on Plankton’s site and it is identical to Swisslauren’s emoticon here.
She must be very unhappy to come here and lie about her identity. For what purpose? I hope she finds some peace of mind and, eventually, some happiness.
Rosie, if you are reading, please check out my blog with an open mind; my entire objective is to reach women who, through no fault of their own, don’t understand the male nature but want to learn in order to interact better with men. All that intense emotional energy you have can be routed productively once you understand the basics about the male nature. You are welcome to participate and I will answer any questions you may have about the subject to the best of my ability.
P.S. I always come up in the “gender guesser” software as male or “weak male/european” I consider that a result of too many years reading the words of Dead White Males lol.
The main reason I never posted on the Plankton blog was because of the utter childishness, spitefulness and gang-girl mentality that came to plague it. Judging by what’s going on here I can think I made the right decision.
I assure you I am not her, Fi. But if it makes you feel better to believe that then go ahead.