scheduling another
by rantywoman
There’s the potential for a second date with a gentleman who has some appeal but also some unexpected red flags.
I’m wavering.
On the one hand, I liked him.
On the other hand, I don’t feel a strong attraction, a pull, to him.
On the one hand, we’ve only been on one date, so that could grow.
On the other hand, I’ve never had that change much.
On the one hand, I feel like I should be grateful I’ve met someone appealing, as it does feel like “there is nobody left” at this age.
On the other hand, I’ve had several people tell me that one of his red flags should be a dealbreaker.
On the other other hand, I’ve had other friends tell me that it shouldn’t be.
On the one hand, it feels unfair not to give it a little more time, spend at least one more date with him.
On the other hand, it would be much, much easier to nip this in the bud now than a few dates from now.
On the one hand, what’s one date?
On the other hand, my schedule is quite packed, and I find myself extremely reluctant to give up any thing on my plate right now, whether it be a dance class, catching up with a couple of friends, getting to the grocery store, a big event I really want to attend on Sunday, my new yoga cult, or maybe, just maybe, a little bit of free time to make a dent in the four books piled on my coffee table.
On the one hand, it could be healthy to spend time with another person.
On the other hand, it would be easier to spend time with someone who is already involved in some way in my activities, so I don’t have to carve out extra time.
On the one hand, maybe I’m becoming too inflexible and selfish too make room for somebody.
On the other hand, maybe I can only make that room for somebody really special.
On the one hand, someone that special may never show up.
On the other hand, perhaps I’m becoming busy and happy enough on my own?
Honestly, I wouldn’t have minded the disappearing act this time, so I could avoid all these questions.
thebitterbabe 
If you don’t know…give him another chance, in time it will become clear whether he is someone you are interested in or not.
I think all your activities are wonderful. You are a really interesting person who knows how to make your own life. That will be an asset for a man who appreciates this. Interesting smart men want someone who brings fun and interest to the relationship. Just one caveat…you dont’ want to give the impression there is no room or no need for a relationship. Men love to feel needed. I remember in a past relationship I had, in the beginning, I had so many interests that fulfilled me my new bf said “I sometimes feel there is no room for me”. Just a thought.
I have worried about that and years and years ago had a guy tell me that he thought it was unappealing if a woman seemed too busy with her own activities. I do try to involve myself in stuff that doesn’t require either an upfront commitment or being somewhere at the same time every week. That way I can retain some flexibility and can fit social stuff in as the opportunities arise.
It would be easier for me though if I met someone who was into at least a few of my activities– who liked to dance or see comedy or theater or even liked to hike– or who was into some new activity that was appealing to me. Too many people just like to see movies and eat out, and so there’s not a lot to bond over or share, or I have to try to think up stuff for us to do together, which is time-consuming in and of itself.
I understand and agree with the last part. It’s always nice to find someone who we can share the fun with…like you said…beyond dinner and movies.
Think of it this way. What if you met a man who had a super busy social life, who was committed to not only his work (which is good) but also other hobbies, activities. Would you feel more comfortable dating him or dating someone who you knows wants a relationship and is willing to engage in it more.
That’s a really good point. I do feel that way when I meet a guy who is really into time-consuming hobbies like skiing, flying planes, rock climbing, etc. because I feel like he will never be around. I try to keep my hobbies simple– drop in classes and hobbies like swimming, hiking, dancing, seeing shows– so that I can drop them for spontaneous plans and schedule them around socializing with friends. Maybe I just don’t feel strongly enough about this particular guy to prioritize him… and perhaps that is partly because of the red flags.
I do feel like it is really difficult to squeeze in a life around working full-time. Eating right, getting enough sleep, and exercising is hard enough, sometimes impossible, without adding time to read and socialize and attend cultural events. It’s frustrating and leads me to believe I need someone with the same hobbies or ones I’d be willing to take up.
Good point about having room for someone, if a man who could only barely fit me in between his other activities, then he is as good as useless to me. So I could easily see how it would be a negative feeling from a man’s point of view it it becomes necessary to make an advance booking to see the object of his desire.
But then I don’t have the need to be constantly doing something, in fact my idea of a perfect person is the one with whom one can do nothing.
I would definitely meet him again (loved the list btw! 😉
If you don’t meet him again the outcome will be zero.
If you meet him again – who knows, but it will be greater than nothing at all.
Also – “On the other hand, my schedule is quite packed, and I find myself extremely reluctant to give up any thing on my plate right now, whether it be a dance class, catching up with a couple of friends, getting to the grocery store”
Life is long. You have many chances to do the dance class or catch up on books – but there will always (for us all) be imited chances to meet new people.
You say “On the other hand, maybe I can only make that room for somebody really special. On the one hand, someone that special may never show up.” and that, “On the one hand, I liked him”
Maybe he (or any guy you date) become “special” even if they don’t seem it in date one.
I know you say also that you didn’t feel a strong pull but most of the long relationships/marriages I know (tbuilt on real love for one another) were not based on instant lust more like friendship or shared experiences or joining new groups, or at universities etc. That’s Not to say there is no physical attraction – but that sometimes what attracts you to someone, makes you really love them is not something that might strike you on first meeting them.
I would give him another chance. You are young (yes, you are! 40 or not) and I think there is an element of “giving up” in your post. I think Everyone feels like that sometimes, and I think there is definitely the time to stop and not bother with something – but I don’t think this is it.
Also – I have noticed that women that are dating when a bit older (but not old!) are Obviously more in touch with themselves, what they want. They are often successful and independent – and, of course, want someone like that. But, most marriages are not based on an instant “tck all boxes” they are built on compromise (not compromise of anything fundamnental, but working around one another)…and I think it may be that this desire or ability to compromise – may be less easy for women dating over 35. I am Not saying compromise anything 🙂 but maybe to relax a bit with it all, rather than as boxes to be ticked off.
What do you have to you really have to lose by seeing him again? And, what could you gain?
Until you know what the “red flags” are yourself (rather than what your friends think) – I would give him the benefit of the doubt.
(btw – most guys I know that are still single in their late 30s and 40s – are lovely guys but are not nearly as concerned with what women do, as we are with what guys do. These are all educated, kind men -and from what I can see they just want to be with someone nice that shares their wider ideals and values…what they actually do (e.g. they could be a waitress) doesn’t bother them. For women, what men do tends to be a bit more of a deal breaker (e.g. a waiter is not that cool if you’re educated and over 20!). He might not see it as a case of not being interested in your activities or wanting you to do all of his – it’s probably not that well thought out! He probably hasn’t even considered that you have activities etc – and I wouldn’t hold that against him..a certain cluelessness in this sort of stuff tends to be a male hallmark for some men – that are still great in other respects.
Also – thinking about it…
He’s probably thinking like you (he doesn’t want to give up his activities for someone new) but like you I am pretty sure if you guys liked each other this compromise would happen naturally. I think some deal breakers may ironically only not become deal breakers if the relationship/dates etc is allowed to develop Beyond an early “yes” “no” based on these same deal breakers (if that makes sense?)
And, if you liked him – and it developed, why not mention that you would like to do more of your activities and a bit less of his – to make it a bit equal. He may not have considered it, but if you like one another this discussion and compromise would be able to happen. But I don’t think you can force it to happen Before allowing the relationship/dates etc to develop. I think relationships are a bit Chicken/Egg this way (e.g what came first). And, I wonder if marriages and relationships that happen more easily in younger adults do so becasue the so-called “deal breakers” are not yet an issue (and should they be so early on?)
Mia,
Thanks for all your replies.
I do think men care a lot less about what women do for a living, which is good and bad. Makes me worry that they care too much about looks! And also that women’s accomplishments are all for naught when it comes to the dating market. On the other hand, it’s nice not to be judged for that.
I have heard of Gottlieb and read her book. It was quite controversial. I liked the book but feel conflicted (naturally) about her message.
oops! sorry for posting the reviews and links then! I wasn’t sure….she was only briefly mentioned in the UK – most women I know have never heard of her here. She sounds like she was quite big in the US though.
Yes, I know what you mean. I think her message has to be taken in the knowledge that “settling” doesn’t mean settling for love or a real connection.
ps (final post!)
Have you ever heard of Lori Gottlieb?
http://www.lorigottlieb.com/
She makes some good observations, worth reading (I haven’t read her book – but I have read articles she has written on the same thing)
Just in case the title of the book on her website seems kind of obnoxious at first glance!
the reviews for the book:
“What Lori Gottlieb is saying isn’t subversive – it’s smart. A thoroughly entertaining reality check, it will make single women laugh and squirm, and married people appreciate their spouses even more.”
—Diablo Cody, Academy Award-winning screenwriter of JUNO
“I wish I could round up every single woman I know and assign this book for discussion. Gottlieb helps women see how our cultural or private fantasies build up so many expectations that they destroy the possibility of real love and, eventually, marriage. Marry Him is a big fat lesson in how not to get in your own way. Any woman who wants to find true love and hasn’t been able to should read this book.”
—Pepper Schwartz, Ph.D., relationship expert at Perfectmatch.com
“Finally, here’s a cautionary tale for anyone wondering why she hasn’t found Mr. Right—with a hopeful message about the Mr. Right Nows, the Mr. Close Enoughs, and even the Mr. What the F*#%s.”
—Jill Soloway, writer and executive producer for Six Feet Under
“Engaging, hilarious, brutally honest, and eye-opening! Marry Him is an encouraging story about finding love by getting real.”
—Rachel Greenwald, New York Times bestselling author of Find a Husband After 35
“This is a daring and wise book. Gottlieb tells it like it is: In our modern world of excess, too many of us have unrealistic expectations about men and love, and even more unrealistic views of ourselves. Women (and men) should take Gottlieb’s message to heart: ‘Look for reasons to say yes.’ It could change your life.”
—Helen Fisher, Ph.D., Rutgers University and author of Why Him? Why Her?
“I have been very happily married for many years, and if my daughters ever ask me for advice about potential spouses, I plan to pass off a lot of what’s in this book as my own sage wisdom.”
—Kurt Andersen, New York Times bestselling author of Heyday and host of public radio’s Studio 360
“Marry Him shows women how to find true happiness when seeking love—by giving them a new way to look at the world. Gottlieb manages to be hilarious yet thought-provoking, light-hearted yet profound on the questions of: Why do we fall in love? What qualities really matter in a marriage? For what reasons do we make the decisions that affect our whole lives? Like provocative relationship classics such as The Rules and He’s Just Not That Into You, Marry Him will set people talking for years.”
—Gretchen Rubin, New York Times bestselling author of The Happiness Project
“Lori Gottlieb’s smart, insightful, witty observations gleaned on her own unusual romantic path signal an important new voice in single-girl lit. The Rules turned single women needy, He’s Just Not That Into You made them depressed, and Marry Him finally sets them free, preaching that in the long run, ‘good enough’ might be better than great.”
—Amy Sohn, author of Prospect Park West
“Marry Him is a treasure. A must-read on getting the male and female brain together in almost perfect harmony.”
—Louann Brizendine, New York Times bestselling author of The Female Brain and the upcoming The Male Brain
“By telling you to read Lori Gottlieb’s incisive and insightful book, I hope I can make up for all the unrealistic romantic propaganda I had a hand in spreading as a former editor at a glossy women’s magazine. For anyone who is single but looking, the surprising truths in Marry Him go against just about everything we’ve been brought up to believe aboutdating and marriage.”
—Megan McCafferty, New York Times bestselling author of the Jessica Darling series
What People Said About the Atlantic Article
“Gottlieb gets a lot right about what it’s like to be a heterosexual, middle-class, single woman in her 30s, and how different it is from being a heterosexual, middle-class single woman in her 20s. What took me by surprise is the extent to which the change is palpable, even for women like me, who haven’t been planning their dream wedding since girlhood; who are in fact ambivalent about babies and marriage… I think Gottlieb has done something important … She debunks the vapid “You go, girl!” form of empowerment, which often harms women by suggesting that they shouldn’t settle for less than everything. Gottlieb, in contrast, tells her story as if she were speaking to a roomful of adults, who can be trusted not to faint at bad news.”
—The Economist
“Just six years ago, suggesting that women consider their eggs before rejecting suitors was controversial. Today, it’s so commonplace that the very un-Carrie notion of “settling” is no longer taboo. Settling will make you happier, [Gottlieb] said, because those who marry with high expectations are only disappointed.”
—Newsweek
“It all depends on what you consider settling. What I failed to realize, in the blushing first stages of romantic love, is that romance is not what runs a household, gets the kids washed, or folds the ironing.”
—Good Housekeeping
“[Gottlieb’s essay] has sparked responses, in the blogosphere and elsewhere, whose collective word count surely exceeds that of her article by at least a hundred-fold… I detect enough self-deprecating drollery in the essay to persuade me it’s not the crime against humanity that many of its more vehement critics are convinced it is.”
—The Los Angeles Times
“Last week I was in the salon getting a mani-pedi and I overheard two of the gals discussing an article from the Atlantic magazine. Why wait for the perfect man, when he just might be a myth?”
— Stephen Colbert, The Colbert Report
“I think this is going to continue to be debated for the next millennia or two.”
—Neal Conan, NPR’s “Talk of the Nation”
“Gottlieb’s advice contradicts the romantic message of a million love songs and Valentine’s cards and chick flicks. But given the perennial shortage of perfect men, she’s probably got a point.”
—The Washington Post
Reviews
The New York Times
“An unexpected delight. Honest and darkly comic… the truth can be liberating.”
People magazine
“Funny and relatable… anything but antiromance.”
O, The Oprah Magazine
“Marry Him is surprisingly, unnervingly convincing… Readers may ask, what is an unhappily single woman doing, telling us how and why to get married? But maybe the better question is, who better?”
The Huffington Post
“This impeccably researched tome is mandatory reading.”
Booklist – starred review
“Gottlieb’s honest, astute analysis will resonate with many women…she makes a strong case in this groundbreaking work.”
The Chicago Tribune
“A provocative pop culture treatise… Gottlieb encourages us to think through our own beliefs and unexamined assumptions.”
Christian Science Monitor
“Marry Him is worth your time. You might be skeptical, but if you’ve ever sought your own Prince Charming, nixed a guy because you didn’t feel an immediate spark, been attracted to the “bad boy,” or found yourself expecting perfection, this book is for you. After you read this honest and admittedly unsettling book, your love life will never be the same again. And that’s a good thing. A well-conceived and convincing argument on how to find a more realistic Mr. Right.”
Glamour
“It was a humbling experience to read MARRY HIM, but I’m so glad I did.”
The New York Observer
“Marry Him is a frank and funny read, weaving real people’s stories with Gottlieb’s own experiences, and containing sharp examinations of how society and culture—everything from When Harry Met Sally to The Bachelor—come into play when modern women look for love.”
Forbes Woman
“In business, ”good enough” is often ‘very good.’ So why should we expect–and demand–perfection in dating and marriage? In business, ‘good enough’ is often ”very good.’ So why should we expect–and demand–perfection in dating and marriage?”
The Examiner
“The buzz surrounding Lori Gottlieb’s newest book, Marry Him, is well-deserved… She writes with honesty and hope, and there are many people who will benefit from reading this book.”
AOL’s Lemondrop.com
“This is the smartest relationship book I’ve read in years.”
Salon
“A sensible plea to discard the toxic fantasy of romantic comedies and think realistically about what makes a solid partnership.”
Publishers Weekly
“The advice makes good sense, and Gottlieb is personable and appealing.”
Library Journal
“A funny cautionary tale of one woman’s journey through the modern landscape of dating.”
Heeb magazine
“Very funny… Gottlieb focuses on what makes a real successful relationship, and guides the reader in that direction.”
Final. Final post (sorry about so many! Just think these links are quite relevant and interesting)
An interview with the author here:
http://www.lorigottlieb.com/interview.php
Hi Ranty
I read this excellent article on Psychology Today and thought of you and your dating conundrum. Do read to the end to where he writes about ‘the wave’ – thought it might give you some food for thought…
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finding-love/201202/deeper-dating-the-three-steps-lead-love
Hugs from London
Jody x
http://www.gateway-women.com
Jody,
Thanks for sending– nice article.
I find that when I dont’ know the answer to something usually in time clarity will ensue. With this guy you just don’t know yet. Give him another try and then (hopefully!) you will have more clarity.
Ranty, I couldn’t help but feel a bit annoyed reading your post because the entire point of this blog is that you’re single, over 40 and slightly bitter, there are no good men, etc. So then when you finally do meet a good potential man, you seem to make every excuse in the book, some of which are b.s. (e.g., you’ve complained about not having many close friends, and how trying new activities can get tedious, so why suddenly use those as reasons to not see this man)? Isn’t it better to be honest (with yourself as well), whether it’s that you’re just not that into him or you’re scared at the thought of being with someone after all these years of being single? Both are fair and valid, but not this, ‘Gosh, I’m so busy/my life is so full at the moment, I don’t know whether I can give up three whole hours of my life for a second date.’ Not trying to be harsh – I just think you’re doing yourself a disservice.
I’ve softened on the situation and perhaps we will go out again; I think this weekend was just particularly busy. And March is one of those non-holiday months, so I start feeling like I have no time. But he isn’t technically divorced yet, which is enough of a red flag that some of my friends said they wouldn’t date him at all right now, so you gotta cut me some slack here with my indecision…
Fair enough, Ranty. 🙂
Not technically divorced = more like a yellow flag (proceed but with caution), no?